"Hidden" Epic Metal tracks?

[Nonseinormale65]

But remember Epic Metal actually does not exist...it's not a musical genre...it's simply heavy metal with fantasy/epic lyrics...otherwise this is "epic" too

[MechaBarbarian]

Of course it is a musical genre. Anything is a musical genre if you want it to be, they're all made up! It's as valid or invalid as any other. It's such a bizarre thing that people never say this about Epic Doom Metal...

[laasgaardh]

[MechaBarbarian]

Thanks Hank! I actually don't think I've really listened to any Tull past Heavy Horses but this was really cool and I see where you're getting at! I absolutely think "Broadsword" applies as well! Sent me on a bit of a journey.

[MechaBarbarian]

@Nonseinormale65: As for your suggestions, while I love Asia (both records) and can see the crossover appeal for fans of say Legend and Alkana I don't really think of it as Epic Metal, it's not really those kinds of riffs or arcane atmosphere. Same must be said for the White Wolf track.
The Bride and Glory Bells suggestions are spot on though.

It's not just "fantasy lyrics" or long songs with keyboards. There is clearly a lineage of majestic riffs, forlorn melodies, dusty atmosphere and narrative-fueled songwriting that makes up Epic Metal.

[bigfootkit]

It's not just "fantasy lyrics" or long songs with keyboards. There is clearly a lineage of majestic riffs, forlorn melodies, dusty atmosphere and narrative-fueled songwriting that makes up Epic Metal.

Interesting topic but there's the problem with 'made up' genres. What might be 'Epic Metal' to someone might not be to you & vice-versa.
For instance i generally abhor keyboards which you make mention of in your genre definition/clarification above, (though i will make exceptions for Hammond organ or maybe a little funky clavinet), so those divergent tastes mean we're into sub-genre territory already. NWOEM(WK) (New Wave Of Epic Metal (With Keyboards)) anyone?
Having said that, i very much enjoyed your response to Nonseinormale65's assertion that "Epic Metal actually does not exist", and agree that "Anything is a musical genre if you want it to be".
To that end, I was talking with a friend just recently & we found ourselves pondering if there was enough acoustic/unplugged Doom out there for it now to be considered to be a standalone genre. To me, it's a thing & the song below proves my point, but (just to further muddy the waters ) i reckon you could also consider it 'Epic Metal' despite the lack of amplification & it's relatively compact length just because of that widescreen melancholic atmosphere & lyrical subject matter.

[MechaBarbarian]

Interesting topic but there's the problem with 'made up' genres. What might be 'Epic Metal' to someone might not be to you & vice-versa.

Yeah but this is always the case. God did not decide power metal or death metal existed. They exist because people recognize common elements in certain bands and then explicitly made more music honing in on those. That has always been the case. That said I do think my interpretation of Epic Heavy Metal is fairly well established at this point, and frankly is seeing levels of notoriety it never has before through bands like Eternal Champion, Chevalier or Smoulder. And to be fair to myself I did qualify my initial post with what kind of sound I was looking for! Though of course anyone is free to disagree.

Not a single one of the say 30 or so original Gothic Rock bands (Bauhaus, The Cure, Dead Can Dance etc) that most of the genre takes it's influence from want anything to do with the genre or see themselves as part of it. Yet we can describe it and, compartmentalize and iterate on it. And people did. Now is killing Joke a Goth band? Swans? Impossible to say, genres are made up! All we ever can do is argue for our own understanding of the concept. Black Metal means either a lyrical concept or a specific guitar style depending on if you're talking about it in 1986 or 2016. No one is right.

A genre is a short hand for discussing a concept, and it also can be a compass for a particular artistic vision. We all assign it values unique to our own understanding of it. We are all free to expel or ignore aspects that don't match up with that. The notion of "true metal" is just that, a made up idealized thing. I'm not plugged (sorry hehe) enough into the genre to know if there are enough Acoustic Doom bands. But the real question is, do you want there to be? If so, there is value in speaking about it, in being passionate about it and trying to hone in on what you like about it and asking: "what would qualify a song to fit in that genre?".

Your examples reminded me of the band Onkos who play a Technical/Avant Death Metal of the post-Gorguts kind, only fully acoustic. It's been interesting seeing the discussion around that band. Here's something that clearly is informed fully by metal and it's song structures but has taken out an essential part of what initially defined metal, the distorted heavy guitar.


What I'm trying to say is yes, Epic Metal is made up, not real but it is also the most real thing in the world.

[bigfootkit]

MechaBarbarian, I salute you for the erudite way you set out your well thought through arguements. Future generations may well cite your post as the moment 'Epic Metal' was ideologically coalesced into fully-fledged genre form.
May god have mercy on your soul.

What I'm trying to say is yes, Epic Metal is made up, not real but it is also the most real thing in the world.

Kudos also for that fine summation, i damn near cheered.

EDIT
Onkos was certainly an interesting listen but it evoked memories of the music from those 'Jazz Club' sketches from 'The Fast Show' TV series.

[naturom demonto]

Maybe this one would fit with the 70s entries?

[bigfootkit]

Maybe this one would fit with the 70s entries?

Good call! I always loved how dramatic & ambitious that song is. 'Nobody's Fault' is their heaviest track overall, but this was definitely their peak from a creative standpoint.

[mordred]

Too obvious?