S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

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VictimeDelExil
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Re: S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

Post by VictimeDelExil »

bigfootkit wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:56 am
VictimeDelExil wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:47 am Ah yes because left wing bullshit is so much better. I wish all political lyrics, tongue-in-cheek or not, would fuck off from Metal completely. Punk rockers can have that shit all they want, but Metal is terrible when it has "social issue" type of lyrics.
But Metal has always touched on social/political issues & it's where some of the very best songs come from.
In the Vietnam era you had loads of anti-war songs like Sabbath's War Pigs & plenty of pro & anti drugs songs (sometimes by the very same bands, ie: Snowblind/Hand Of Doom).
In the NWoBHM era a lot of the songs dealt with the soaring unemployment rates & lack of opportunities (Fist - SS Giro, Priest's Breaking The Law), and Maiden even had Eddie decapitating then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher on the sleeve of the Sanctuary 45. Their disapproval of her wasn't exactly unambiguous.
Once you get into the Thrash era the political/social content becomes ever more overt. Metallica for example, were singing about nuclear war (Trapped Under Ice), the death penalty (Ride The Lightning), the environment (Blackened), drugs (Master...), and they were easily one of the less political bands in the genre.
Moving on, bands like Carcass & Napalm Death made their animal rights & anti-capitalist agendas very clear, and the wider extreme scene covered pretty much every other social/political point of view or bone of contention in some shape or form, no matter how niche or ludicrous.
If the different strands & eras of Metal share anything at all it's that it's always been the sound of rebellion, whether as a vague notion like on something like We're Not Gonna Take It or a very specific issue as in Body Count's No Lives Matter.
I'm reminded of this exchange from the classic film 'The Wild One', which might be the perfect Metal lyrical blueprint.
A: What are you rebelling against Johnny?
B: What have you got?
:lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpnjYOF0Wb8
Thrash sucks. Body Count is awful. Grind sucks. Black Sabbath is crap compared to Scorpions or Deep Purple.

All joking aside, the difference between something like War Pigs or Snowblind and what I call "social issues" lyrics really depends on how obnoxiously executed the material in question is. War Pigs is at least somewhat mature in its delivery and is something that most people regardless of political view could agree on to some extent. Whereas something like I don't know, that modern Destruction song that's complaining about internet trolls (the horror!) is absolutely childish, especially considering it's written by 50-something year old men.
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Re: S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

Post by bigfootkit »

VictimeDelExil wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:26 am
Thrash sucks. Body Count is awful. Grind sucks. Black Sabbath is crap compared to Scorpions or Deep Purple.
You seem to have missed my point. I was merely saying that for better or worse, social/political commentary has always been part of Metal's make up & likely always will be to a greater or lesser degree. If you were to take that element out of the equation we would lose some of the best songs the genre has to offer. The songs, bands & genres i referenced aren't neccesarily my own favourites i merely chose them to illustrate the points i was trying to make. I'm personally not a fan of Carcass or Napalm Death's music but i absolutely respect them for for having the balls to push their agendas which at the time were very much on the fringe but now far less so.
By the same token, I wouldn't expect there to be many Body Count fans on the Corroseum, but 'No Lives Matter' is lyrically one of the best written & smartest songs i've heard in years. To take a topic so divisive & break it down in such a way that it widens the debate & takes race out of the 'argument' entirely is no mean feat.
The reason i added the youtube link to Priest's 'United' at the end was my attempt at illustrating that although we may all be coming from different places socially, geographically, philosophically or politically we are all here because we are united by our love of Heavy music & that means something.
You don't seem to have liked the points i was making for whatever, and that's fine. We agree to disagree. We move on. We concentrate more on the things we do agree on.
But hang on cotton-pickin' minute! 'Black Sabbath is crap compared to Scorpions or Deep Purple'? :shock: :shock: :shock:
That may be the single most ludicrous thing i've ever seen or heard anyone say..
Me & you. Outside. Right now. To the death.
:lol:
I cannot, I shall not, I will not obey.
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VictimeDelExil
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Re: S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

Post by VictimeDelExil »

bigfootkit wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:06 am
VictimeDelExil wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:26 am
Thrash sucks. Body Count is awful. Grind sucks. Black Sabbath is crap compared to Scorpions or Deep Purple.
You seem to have missed my point. I was merely saying that for better or worse, social/political commentary has always been part of Metal's make up & likely always will be to a greater or lesser degree. If you were to take that element out of the equation we would lose some of the best songs the genre has to offer. The songs, bands & genres i referenced aren't neccesarily my own favourites i merely chose them to illustrate the points i was trying to make. I'm personally not a fan of Carcass or Napalm Death's music but i absolutely respect them for for having the balls to push their agendas which at the time were very much on the fringe but now far less so.
By the same token, I wouldn't expect there to be many Body Count fans on the Corroseum, but 'No Lives Matter' is lyrically one of the best written & smartest songs i've heard in years. To take a topic so divisive & break it down in such a way that it widens the debate & takes race out of the 'argument' entirely is no mean feat.
The reason i added the youtube link to Priest's 'United' at the end was my attempt at illustrating that although we may all be coming from different places socially, geographically, philosophically or politically we are all here because we are united by our love of Heavy music & that means something.
You don't seem to have liked the points i was making for whatever, and that's fine. We agree to disagree. We move on. We concentrate more on the things we do agree on.
But hang on cotton-pickin' minute! 'Black Sabbath is crap compared to Scorpions or Deep Purple'? :shock: :shock: :shock:
That may be the single most ludicrous thing i've ever seen or heard anyone say..
Me & you. Outside. Right now. To the death.
:lol:
Counting 70s Sabbath only against Mark II Deep Purple or 70s Scorpions, the latter two are much better. Or at least more to my taste. After all, I prefer Silver Mountain to most of the "trve" Heavy Metal that gets praised more often. Though yes I understand it's been a part of it forever, as I was saying I feel like it should be executed in a more... how do I articulate this well... "timeless" manner like War Pigs is, as opposed to all those 80s punk bands with super dated lyrics about Reagan or whatever... it just feels very uninspired. That and I think music, especially Metal works best as an escape from all the horse shit going on in the world.
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Re: S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

Post by bigfootkit »

VictimeDelExil wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:55 am
Counting 70s Sabbath only against Mark II Deep Purple or 70s Scorpions, the latter two are much better. Or at least more to my taste. After all, I prefer Silver Mountain to most of the "trve" Heavy Metal that gets praised more often. Though yes I understand it's been a part of it forever, as I was saying I feel like it should be executed in a more... how do I articulate this well... "timeless" manner like War Pigs is, as opposed to all those 80s punk bands with super dated lyrics about Reagan or whatever... it just feels very uninspired. That and I think music, especially Metal works best as an escape from all the horse shit going on in the world.
I do agree that by lyrically dealing in specifics you risk looking dated when the debate moves on, but the quality of the work can also help you transcend that potential pitfall. The War Pigs example is a good one in that respect as the lyrics are general enough that it's 'just' an anti-war song, but at it's time of release there was absolutely no doubt which war they were talking about. They were most definitely sticking it to the man with the title referring to 'Pigs', but had they gone further & called it 'Vietnamageddon' or something similarly specific that would have dated poorly. They were canny enough to sidestep that pitfall in their lyrical execution & achieved that timelessness you referred to as a result.
(They weren't canny enough to avoid rhyming 'masses' with 'masses' though :lol:)
The 80s punk & hardcore bands were often more about the message than the music, which could be treated as a mere vehicle for the polemic, but the best examples of social/political and lyrics in Metal are usually more artistically integrated into what the music is doing so i don't have any problem with it as a lyrical topic.
Heavy music does demand heavy lyrical subject matter & i enjoy the more fantastical fantasy & horror themes too, but if some of themes deal with peoples real lives in the here and now, it definitely has it's place. And if it helps to keep the genre relevant to younger listeners by providing an emotional 'hook' that might make them interested in exploring the style further then that's got to be a good thing for the longevity of our music.
Re Sabs v DP v Scorps, let's just agree to disagree. Musical taste is so personally specific & deeply imprinted in us that nothing either of us can say is ever going to change the others minds. No matter how wrong you are. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Avenger wrote : I'm not a copyright office nor a judicial entity.
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Re: S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

Post by VictimeDelExil »

bigfootkit wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:20 am
VictimeDelExil wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:55 am
Counting 70s Sabbath only against Mark II Deep Purple or 70s Scorpions, the latter two are much better. Or at least more to my taste. After all, I prefer Silver Mountain to most of the "trve" Heavy Metal that gets praised more often. Though yes I understand it's been a part of it forever, as I was saying I feel like it should be executed in a more... how do I articulate this well... "timeless" manner like War Pigs is, as opposed to all those 80s punk bands with super dated lyrics about Reagan or whatever... it just feels very uninspired. That and I think music, especially Metal works best as an escape from all the horse shit going on in the world.
I do agree that by lyrically dealing in specifics you risk looking dated when the debate moves on, but the quality of the work can also help you transcend that potential pitfall. The War Pigs example is a good one in that respect as the lyrics are general enough that it's 'just' an anti-war song, but at it's time of release there was absolutely no doubt which war they were talking about. They were most definitely sticking it to the man with the title referring to 'Pigs', but had they gone further & called it 'Vietnamageddon' or something similarly specific that would have dated poorly. They were canny enough to sidestep that pitfall in their lyrical execution & achieved that timelessness you referred to as a result.
(They weren't canny enough to avoid rhyming 'masses' with 'masses' though :lol:)
The 80s punk & hardcore bands were often more about the message than the music, which could be treated as a mere vehicle for the polemic, but the best examples of social/political and lyrics in Metal are usually more artistically integrated into what the music is doing so i don't have any problem with it as a lyrical topic.
Heavy music does demand heavy lyrical subject matter & i enjoy the more fantastical fantasy & horror themes too, but if some of themes deal with peoples real lives in the here and now, it definitely has it's place. And if it helps to keep the genre relevant to younger listeners by providing an emotional 'hook' that might make them interested in exploring the style further then that's got to be a good thing for the longevity of our music.
Re Sabs v DP v Scorps, let's just agree to disagree. Musical taste is so personally specific & deeply imprinted in us that nothing either of us can say is ever going to change the others minds. No matter how wrong you are. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Much late reply due to my circumstances being that I have been rather busy lately and haven't checked any forums I am on in quite some time. But I would have to say, I was in a very bitter-state-of-mind when I last posted on this forum, which is typical of me. I would have to say that I mostly agree, it just really depends on how the bands execute the subject matter - however I still prefer Heavy Metal to have hard lyrical themes about the style of music itself, fantasy lyrics, etc. Anything to take my mind off all the shit going on in the world. Because that is what music is good for, in my perspective.
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Re: S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

Post by bigfootkit »

VictimeDelExil wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:47 am
bigfootkit wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:20 am
VictimeDelExil wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:55 am
Counting 70s Sabbath only against Mark II Deep Purple or 70s Scorpions, the latter two are much better. Or at least more to my taste. After all, I prefer Silver Mountain to most of the "trve" Heavy Metal that gets praised more often. Though yes I understand it's been a part of it forever, as I was saying I feel like it should be executed in a more... how do I articulate this well... "timeless" manner like War Pigs is, as opposed to all those 80s punk bands with super dated lyrics about Reagan or whatever... it just feels very uninspired. That and I think music, especially Metal works best as an escape from all the horse shit going on in the world.
I do agree that by lyrically dealing in specifics you risk looking dated when the debate moves on, but the quality of the work can also help you transcend that potential pitfall. The War Pigs example is a good one in that respect as the lyrics are general enough that it's 'just' an anti-war song, but at it's time of release there was absolutely no doubt which war they were talking about. They were most definitely sticking it to the man with the title referring to 'Pigs', but had they gone further & called it 'Vietnamageddon' or something similarly specific that would have dated poorly. They were canny enough to sidestep that pitfall in their lyrical execution & achieved that timelessness you referred to as a result.
(They weren't canny enough to avoid rhyming 'masses' with 'masses' though :lol:)
The 80s punk & hardcore bands were often more about the message than the music, which could be treated as a mere vehicle for the polemic, but the best examples of social/political and lyrics in Metal are usually more artistically integrated into what the music is doing so i don't have any problem with it as a lyrical topic.
Heavy music does demand heavy lyrical subject matter & i enjoy the more fantastical fantasy & horror themes too, but if some of themes deal with peoples real lives in the here and now, it definitely has it's place. And if it helps to keep the genre relevant to younger listeners by providing an emotional 'hook' that might make them interested in exploring the style further then that's got to be a good thing for the longevity of our music.
Re Sabs v DP v Scorps, let's just agree to disagree. Musical taste is so personally specific & deeply imprinted in us that nothing either of us can say is ever going to change the others minds. No matter how wrong you are. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Much late reply due to my circumstances being that I have been rather busy lately and haven't checked any forums I am on in quite some time. But I would have to say, I was in a very bitter-state-of-mind when I last posted on this forum, which is typical of me. I would have to say that I mostly agree, it just really depends on how the bands execute the subject matter - however I still prefer Heavy Metal to have hard lyrical themes about the style of music itself, fantasy lyrics, etc. Anything to take my mind off all the shit going on in the world. Because that is what music is good for, in my perspective.
Interesting to re-read this all after a few weeks. Although our initial stances on the subject seemed to be miles apart it turned out that overall we actually broadly agreed with each other. Thanks for a good natured & even handed debate on an interesting topic that i hadn't really given too much in depth thought to previously.
For the record i should add that for all i've said in a 'pro' capacity, if all of a bands lyrics were only about political/social lyrics then i'd most likely find that a complete turn-off, but if a lyricist is moved to write well about something he feels passionately about here & there then i'm absolutely fine with that.
With hindsight, I should really have asked DaN to edit the thread to make our political lyrics debate a separate thread & invited other opinions to contribute to it, (maybe you could do that now glorious Administructor?), but it was nice to get to know you a bit better through this to & fro VictimeDelExil. Opinions & civilised debate are the lifeblood of good forums & you more than showed you have 'the right stuff'.
I cannot, I shall not, I will not obey.
Avenger wrote : I'm not a copyright office nor a judicial entity.
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Re: S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

Post by VictimeDelExil »

bigfootkit wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:49 am
VictimeDelExil wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:47 am
bigfootkit wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:20 am

I do agree that by lyrically dealing in specifics you risk looking dated when the debate moves on, but the quality of the work can also help you transcend that potential pitfall. The War Pigs example is a good one in that respect as the lyrics are general enough that it's 'just' an anti-war song, but at it's time of release there was absolutely no doubt which war they were talking about. They were most definitely sticking it to the man with the title referring to 'Pigs', but had they gone further & called it 'Vietnamageddon' or something similarly specific that would have dated poorly. They were canny enough to sidestep that pitfall in their lyrical execution & achieved that timelessness you referred to as a result.
(They weren't canny enough to avoid rhyming 'masses' with 'masses' though :lol:)
The 80s punk & hardcore bands were often more about the message than the music, which could be treated as a mere vehicle for the polemic, but the best examples of social/political and lyrics in Metal are usually more artistically integrated into what the music is doing so i don't have any problem with it as a lyrical topic.
Heavy music does demand heavy lyrical subject matter & i enjoy the more fantastical fantasy & horror themes too, but if some of themes deal with peoples real lives in the here and now, it definitely has it's place. And if it helps to keep the genre relevant to younger listeners by providing an emotional 'hook' that might make them interested in exploring the style further then that's got to be a good thing for the longevity of our music.
Re Sabs v DP v Scorps, let's just agree to disagree. Musical taste is so personally specific & deeply imprinted in us that nothing either of us can say is ever going to change the others minds. No matter how wrong you are. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Much late reply due to my circumstances being that I have been rather busy lately and haven't checked any forums I am on in quite some time. But I would have to say, I was in a very bitter-state-of-mind when I last posted on this forum, which is typical of me. I would have to say that I mostly agree, it just really depends on how the bands execute the subject matter - however I still prefer Heavy Metal to have hard lyrical themes about the style of music itself, fantasy lyrics, etc. Anything to take my mind off all the shit going on in the world. Because that is what music is good for, in my perspective.
Interesting to re-read this all after a few weeks. Although our initial stances on the subject seemed to be miles apart it turned out that overall we actually broadly agreed with each other. Thanks for a good natured & even handed debate on an interesting topic that i hadn't really given too much in depth thought to previously.
For the record i should add that for all i've said in a 'pro' capacity, if all of a bands lyrics were only about political/social lyrics then i'd most likely find that a complete turn-off, but if a lyricist is moved to write well about something he feels passionately about here & there then i'm absolutely fine with that.
With hindsight, I should really have asked DaN to edit the thread to make our political lyrics debate a separate thread & invited other opinions to contribute to it, (maybe you could do that now glorious Administructor?), but it was nice to get to know you a bit better through this to & fro VictimeDelExil. Opinions & civilised debate are the lifeblood of good forums & you more than showed you have 'the right stuff'.
Yeah I have to agree, if a band is overly political it can be quite a turn off for me as well. Also nice to get the compliment on the "right stuff", much appreciated. I like to try and remain civil even if I haven't done the best at it hah
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Re: S.O.D. (STORMTROOPERS OF DEATH) - In Quarantine (2020) USA

Post by bigfootkit »

VictimeDelExil wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:59 am Also nice to get the compliment on the "right stuff", much appreciated. I like to try and remain civil even if I haven't done the best at it hah
Credit where it's due. If someone's out of line i'm quick to call them out on it, so it seems only right to acknowledge a debate conducted in the right spirit. So many people online nowadays go OTT at the slightest 'provocation' that it's utterly tedious & ultimately pointless to engage with them, so it's nice to have a place like this where folks are respectful & good humoured even though we don't always agree on everything.
I cannot, I shall not, I will not obey.
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