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Shiremen wrote:I mean for example, you can trace the Scandinavian influence in so many bands. Or the German. Or American. But Japanese?

Well it's hard to get influenced by bands you haven't heard of. Most europeans or americans never did know there's more to japanese metal than LOUDNESS and ANTHEM and I bet most didn't even care to know because majority of the bands sang in japanese. But still there were bands at the time like BELLZLLEB, GARGOYLE and SABBRABELLS to name a few that had a good doze of originality. Don't you think it's a bit harder for a band from east asia singing in their native language to get BIG in europe or states than a band from UK. You usually need to get BIG or at least known around underground to influence anyone. And let's not forget Kyoji Yamamoto from BOW WOW who used tapping in his hard rock/proto-heavy long before certain Eddie Van Halen but guess who popularized it...

And why did you change your argument all of a sudden. You were talking about how HM don't appeal women and non-white people. I always thought Heavy Metal was a big thing in parts of the south america and it's been popular in Japan for ages. So JUDAS PRIEST, SCORPIONS and DEEP PURPLE didn't appeal to locals when they recorded Unleashed In The East, Tokyo Tapes and Made In Japan??

And I do think that LOUDNESS had some impact. Not to mention VULCANO or SARCOFAGO from Brazil.

Shiremen wrote:What do you mean by a "scene so huge"? What bands have been influenced by that scene you mean?

That there were lots of fans and bands.

The Erlking wrote: But still there were bands at the time like BELLZLLEB, GARGOYLE and SABBRABELLS to name a few that had a good doze of originality. Don't you think it's a bit harder for a band from east asia singing in their native language to get BIG in europe or states than a band from UK. You usually need to get BIG or at least known around underground to influence anyone.

It's rather unlikely to discover a band influenced by the otherwise great BELLZLLEB. It's the same as trying to find a band with influences from THE MEZMERIST. There were certain bands whose sound was so unique and personal that it is extremely difficult to be "copied" from any possible imitator. As far as i'm concerned most jap bands i like had more or less that unique sound (BELLZLLEB, TABBASA, CRY-MAX etc.), perhaps a reason you don't see very often jap-sounding non-japanese metal bands. On the other hand, many HC bands state GISM as one of their main influences...

great thread here! just a few brief points:

nostalgia is nice but it can be quite misleading; the older the memories the more your mind can play tricks on you, as you tend to overromanticize the good points and overlook the bad ones. but i'm sure most of ya'll know this...

i too, can't wait for the death of irony in metal. call me closed-minded, but shallow hipsters need to step the fukk off and find another genre to use as a social facade for only getting laid (remember, the *fashion* is what's important, not the actual music ) as someone once said, metal is not supposed to be "clever".

and yes, racist/bigoted metal fans do exist, espically here in the US. in fact, it's more noticeable than ever. but when you have a music subculture that consists of mostly suburban-raised privileged caucasians, you can't be too surprised...

Something that I saw in multiple post, made me think.

What the hell is wrong with starting a band to get laid?

If you make good music, you deserve to get laid. I really don't care about the motives a band has to make music. It's the music that counts.

If tomorrow Brtiney Spears would make a killer metal album, I would buy it.

Shiremen wrote:

And heavy metal is played by musicians for fans, not by and for races or genders. There are quite a few racist heavy metal fans. But you can usually notice, and thus ignore these people

Ok. But metal doesn't appeal to women or non-whites. And I wonder why. And metal is played by white musicians for white fans, so your statement that its's played by musicians for fans isn't true. Of course there are black/asian/female musicians and fans, but that's an exception.

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That must be a joke. As you might see and understand, everything that comes from UK and USA has a big impact on the whole world, good or bad.
Media is very immportant for all this, I'm sure if Metallica or Slayer would have been formed in, lets say, Portugal, there is a very high possibility they would have been ingnored just because they didnt have this publicity and media support behind them.

If you are talking about Latin American bands, well, bands like Luzbel or Rata Blanca or the whole brazilean bands were/are pretty popular in this part of the continent and have influenced very much to many musicians to start playing music. Those bands are even praised in Europe and USA. Also those bands are as good as any others.

If your termometer to identify good heavy metal is the popularity of the band, then I think you are wrong. Just look at Metallica nowadays, they are so populer and check how a crap they are now. And now check a badn like Candlemass eho play real and high quality Heavy Metal and are just prised by a not so large audience...

As usual whites put very few attention to what happens outside their countries and cultures. Especially those countries like USA and England, and sometimes France and Germany. Just take for example the bands from Hungary, Russian, Poland, Greece, etc, great bands ignored as much as the Latin bands or the Asian bands. And they are whites...

It is not a matter of race. Any race can play Heavy Metal, it is proved, you can find Heavy metal bands, good Heavy Metal bands in almost any country. The difference make it the social and cultural situations, among others. Any guys in Sweden can ask their parents to buy a guitar and equipment, and even the govermnet can give you some support. You also have money to pay lessons. In Latin America and Asia and the ex comunist countries the situation was very different. You had to work to buy a second hand, bad quality guitar... as you dont have money to pay lessons, you have to learn your self or ask a friend to help you... Goverment instead of giving you support, crush you... As you might see, it is twice difficult and chances and possibilities are very few.

Perhaps the USA invented rock'nrol and England Heavy Metal, but, there would never have been any R&R nor HM without Blues. Wasn't guitar invented by a Black guy? Isnt the guitar the main instrument on which HM is based on? Of course Blues and Heavy Metal are more or less different, but in the deep, both share many roots.

And most of girls simply do not play Heavy Metal due this macho attitude of many metallers who are nothing else but a bunch of closet gays trying to be look very viril and masculine. A girl has to fight twice or even more than any man to play Heavy Metal.

Some have said that Metal music is too rude for girls. But it is funny to see that most of girls prefer to play in Black or Death or even Grind bands than in Heavy Metal groups. I can name at least 20 modern Black/Death all girl bands, or that at least have one female member, while Heavy metal.. I cant remember one

Thats statment of "metal is played by white musicians for white fans" is as stupid as that of "Black (metal) music for white people"... rubbish.

And those racist metallers can fuck off and go to play industrial or techno or anything else, since, in my book and after 31 years of listening to Heavy Metal, HM is the very opposite oif what racism is, and to an extend, Nazism is as well...

Getting laid much too often blurs the vision of NO-BULLSHIT-UNCOMPROMISING STEEL one might have

Alright just kidding, just give me some good metal and i couldn't care less about who and how many suck your dick backstage

It is not a matter of race. Any race can play Heavy Metal, it is proved, you can find Heavy metal bands, good Heavy Metal bands in almost any country.

Hello? Have I stated that just white people can play metal?? The only thing I am saying is that white people ARE playing metal. For example, there are extremely many arab immigrants in Stockholm. Would love to see a Maiden t-shirt and a veil combined . But I have never seen that.

And I am really surprised that so many have met racist HM fans. Really? I have never met anyone. Or read racist HM lyrics. Think I would burn my record collection in anger if I did.

Of course there are definitions if a band is important or not. Everyone have their own definition though . As you know, if many musicians or fans mention a band that have inspired them, you wanna check them out.

ha! this is off topic,but the whole "white people doing metal" now reminded me a lot of this book "Chariots of the Gods?: Unsolved Mysteries of the Past" written by this swiss white male Erich von Daniken, that claims that all ancient civilizations were helped by aliens to built all their majestic ancient cities...bottom line of this comparison, how could non-white civilizations would do marvelous things on their own, right? same thing in heavy metal.... ...maybe im wrong for mentioning it like that,but i swear this whole thing was picture n my mind like that

Shiremen wrote: Hello? Have I stated that just white people can play metal?? The only thing I am saying is that white people ARE playing metal. For example, there are extremely many arab immigrants in Stockholm. Would love to see a Maiden t-shirt and a veil combined . But I have never seen that.

And I am really surprised that so many have met racist HM fans. Really? I have never met anyone. Or read racist HM lyrics. Think I would burn my record collection in anger if I did.

Of course there are definitions if a band is important or not. Everyone have their own definition though . As you know, if many musicians or fans mention a band that have inspired them, you wanna check them out.

In the context you wrote it, yes... Musicians never pay much attention to the skin colour of teh audince, rather they think first in age or even gender.

White people play metal yes, as asians, latins, blacks as well... so, still see no immportance of what you say about the skin color of the musicians and their fans.

Hmmmm isnt the lyrics if those NSBM bands racist? Not exactly Heavy Metal, but a genere of....