The real fact is that ARGHOSLENT don't put politics before music.
For the rest, nothing more to tell. I have no time to lose in this never-ending debates.
Nazis in (extreme) Metal
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Ernest Thesiger
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As if that excuses their involvement in things like this:Mr Nuke wrote:The real fact is that ARGHOSLENT don't put politics before music.
http://www.discogs.com/release/1294548
"His name's Antichrist Vandelay. He's an insulter-expulser."
I listen to what I like, be it labelled right winged or left winged. I keep my Arghoslent records close to my Agathocles ones, and I'll listen to Napalm death right before I put up Wehrhammer.
Compare it to the everyday life. Are you so politically aware that you have no friends with different political ideas than you? I can say that I have friends who are anarchist squatters but also people who have 'brown' beliefs (like someone put it earlier). They know that I don't have any interest in politics and that in general I don't want to discuss it with them. I don't need any conviction or speeches, I can make up my own mind. So why should politics keep me away from someone when we don't even discuss it? Politics don't mean everything in life, otherwise there would be no point in talking about anything besides politics.
And I use the same logic when it comes to music. Unless it becomes too obvious (don't need any records where the band is singing sieg heil either) it's not a concern for me. To me, listening to Arghoslent or Grand belial's key doesn't automatically imply that I support their views (which I don't, by the way). Listening to Incubus doesn't make me a christian, and listening to Deicide doesn't make me a satanist.
Compare it to the everyday life. Are you so politically aware that you have no friends with different political ideas than you? I can say that I have friends who are anarchist squatters but also people who have 'brown' beliefs (like someone put it earlier). They know that I don't have any interest in politics and that in general I don't want to discuss it with them. I don't need any conviction or speeches, I can make up my own mind. So why should politics keep me away from someone when we don't even discuss it? Politics don't mean everything in life, otherwise there would be no point in talking about anything besides politics.
And I use the same logic when it comes to music. Unless it becomes too obvious (don't need any records where the band is singing sieg heil either) it's not a concern for me. To me, listening to Arghoslent or Grand belial's key doesn't automatically imply that I support their views (which I don't, by the way). Listening to Incubus doesn't make me a christian, and listening to Deicide doesn't make me a satanist.
I add that one can judge another person on his/her personal values and actions. I don't support islam (well, that's not totally true since there are some spiritual value in islam, but the usual muslim is far from this...) yet I know and appreciate some muslim people for their value as individuals.
Judging an individual and not the group he's supposed to belong to, that's what the Western society, justice, etc, promotes, isn't it ?
Judging an individual and not the group he's supposed to belong to, that's what the Western society, justice, etc, promotes, isn't it ?
Gott ist tot.
Fundamentalists of all kinds seem to need each other to justify their own existense relying only on their insane habit/dependence of bashing in heads or tearing minds apart. I have a hard time finding any kind of violence and force 
acceptable. It's ugly, it hurts and should not be. Easy as that.
Examples of humanism in Heavy Metal?
acceptable. It's ugly, it hurts and should not be. Easy as that.Examples of humanism in Heavy Metal?
Yes, good valid points.
Helm, if you get nothing more out of the music than riffs that’s simply your problem and nothing to do with lackluster effort on the band’s part. Further, ALL metal is about ‘the riffs’ anyway, that is THEE most prominent aspect.
I don’t have to ‘agree’ with things ARGHOSLENT sing about (though if you’d read the lyrics it’s not as if every single song is a clear opinion one way or the other), but I find the lyrics incredibly well written and often beautiful, always engaging and evocative. I can understand people distancing themselves from it all, in the beginning I had reservations, but I overcame them because the music is so incredibly powerful and realised how foolish my attitude was.
Helm, if you get nothing more out of the music than riffs that’s simply your problem and nothing to do with lackluster effort on the band’s part. Further, ALL metal is about ‘the riffs’ anyway, that is THEE most prominent aspect.
I don’t have to ‘agree’ with things ARGHOSLENT sing about (though if you’d read the lyrics it’s not as if every single song is a clear opinion one way or the other), but I find the lyrics incredibly well written and often beautiful, always engaging and evocative. I can understand people distancing themselves from it all, in the beginning I had reservations, but I overcame them because the music is so incredibly powerful and realised how foolish my attitude was.
Are you the tyrant, who cast them to the sea?
One day you'll be among the dead.
One day you'll be among the dead.
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Ernest Thesiger
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Did you read that interview at all?
And it matters nothing what the subject matter is, the language can still be captivating.
"Immersed in the meaning of the era's end
Dueling over sovereignty of holy sand
Talmudic rats roam the Judean plain
As vagabonds inherit years of pain
Immersed, in the era's end
Shards of glass penetrate blood-soaked sands
As razor-sharp tears in the flesh of Christ
Recite the lies that strip them of life"
"Bound and shackled in chains
In secluded regions
Atop mountain heights
The mystic starlight"
"Supply lines feed the endless tide
As despotic soldiers March toward our treasured sites
Symbiotic decay, strips of flesh melt away
As a choking pallor of death with our victory
Descends"
"Hasidism close to extinct
Suppress all empyrean myths
Condone no charity or hope
For swindlers of the holy shrines
Armistice cannot be reached
With the messengers of god"
"Musket blast versus wooden shield
Runners in the sights, spray the field
Storm the mangrove
Cannons bray, the mighty quake
Centuries of blood become erased
I am the white ghost
...
Into darkened depths the sick are cast
Run the mizzenmast
Cannon smoke, a magic fog
Spirits from the sea sound their call
I am the white ghost"
But really it is the delivery that makes it so special for me.
And of course people will find all sorts of things wrong with this band because they think they know what they're all about while overlooking tons of stupidity in endless 'harmless' metal bands.
And it matters nothing what the subject matter is, the language can still be captivating.
"Immersed in the meaning of the era's end
Dueling over sovereignty of holy sand
Talmudic rats roam the Judean plain
As vagabonds inherit years of pain
Immersed, in the era's end
Shards of glass penetrate blood-soaked sands
As razor-sharp tears in the flesh of Christ
Recite the lies that strip them of life"
"Bound and shackled in chains
In secluded regions
Atop mountain heights
The mystic starlight"
"Supply lines feed the endless tide
As despotic soldiers March toward our treasured sites
Symbiotic decay, strips of flesh melt away
As a choking pallor of death with our victory
Descends"
"Hasidism close to extinct
Suppress all empyrean myths
Condone no charity or hope
For swindlers of the holy shrines
Armistice cannot be reached
With the messengers of god"
"Musket blast versus wooden shield
Runners in the sights, spray the field
Storm the mangrove
Cannons bray, the mighty quake
Centuries of blood become erased
I am the white ghost
...
Into darkened depths the sick are cast
Run the mizzenmast
Cannon smoke, a magic fog
Spirits from the sea sound their call
I am the white ghost"
But really it is the delivery that makes it so special for me.
And of course people will find all sorts of things wrong with this band because they think they know what they're all about while overlooking tons of stupidity in endless 'harmless' metal bands.
Are you the tyrant, who cast them to the sea?
One day you'll be among the dead.
One day you'll be among the dead.
I don't think they're about propaganda, as in I don't think the racism in their lyrics is the point of them making the records. They're not even very 'shock nazi rock' overt about their racialist opinions anyway. I don't see much of an 'agenda' in Arghoslent, in fact as it is often mentioned if they had the same music without the racism in the lyrics they'd be a 'big band' in the HM world now so if anything they're hurting their career with that whole thing. But I do not see much compelling beauty or coherent songs or vision either in their music. They just have a bunch of good riffs (amongst a lot of weak ones) and as they said, they'll keep making records as long as they have good riffs left so alright. That's not the sort of vision I'm interested in, in (modern especially) Heavy Metal. 'Have riffs, will record'. In a way, I'd respect them more if they said that their priority was spreading the racism, at least that is some sort of concrete vision about what HM can do.
Riffs might be the most prominent part of HM as you say, but I think that the riffs are just hooks. When you're hooked you examine what else the band is about and what its trying to do and if it engages you on a deeper level, that's great, you've made a discovery that will stay with you. If not, hooks be damned, eventually you forget about them. So I was not compelled by Arghoslent or Grand Belial's Key for that matter. If you were, that's great! If you get anything good out of them that endures in you who am I to judge. Just don't be so surprised when other people fail to be engaged just as you were.
Riffs might be the most prominent part of HM as you say, but I think that the riffs are just hooks. When you're hooked you examine what else the band is about and what its trying to do and if it engages you on a deeper level, that's great, you've made a discovery that will stay with you. If not, hooks be damned, eventually you forget about them. So I was not compelled by Arghoslent or Grand Belial's Key for that matter. If you were, that's great! If you get anything good out of them that endures in you who am I to judge. Just don't be so surprised when other people fail to be engaged just as you were.
But really, you think there is some deep meaning to all the metal you like? Meaning not only of your own making?
I mention the point about riffs because I don't think there was a contradiction between what you quoted from the interview and what I said earlier. I see your point, and it is true as well, but it is about taste, not some universal truth.
What it boils down to is you don't agree with them, after which you critisize them for lack of vision and song-writing skills, which I can't take seriously, it doesn't so much matter whether you like them or not but coming up with rather silly accusations like that is unnecessary.
I actually don't like GBK much, first album is ok, rest sounds like nonsense, and I don't like any ARGHOSLENT demos prior to 'Arsenal of Glory'. They are one of the only 'modern' bands I really enjoy.
I mention the point about riffs because I don't think there was a contradiction between what you quoted from the interview and what I said earlier. I see your point, and it is true as well, but it is about taste, not some universal truth.
What it boils down to is you don't agree with them, after which you critisize them for lack of vision and song-writing skills, which I can't take seriously, it doesn't so much matter whether you like them or not but coming up with rather silly accusations like that is unnecessary.
I actually don't like GBK much, first album is ok, rest sounds like nonsense, and I don't like any ARGHOSLENT demos prior to 'Arsenal of Glory'. They are one of the only 'modern' bands I really enjoy.
Are you the tyrant, who cast them to the sea?
One day you'll be among the dead.
One day you'll be among the dead.
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Ernest Thesiger
- Posts: 6480
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 12:25 am
- Location: M/cr, GBR
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I commented on it ages ago, as Grk! I doubt they'd want a degenerate faggot like me to listen to their albums anyway.daniel wrote:Did you read that interview at all?
Also, people who dismiss all opposition to racial & religious eliminationism as "liberal humanism" or "PC fascism" are full of wind.
"His name's Antichrist Vandelay. He's an insulter-expulser."