Songwriting Help

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VictimeDelExil
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Songwriting Help

Post by VictimeDelExil »

Hey all, I realize this section of the forum goes largely unnoticed as of late - so I won't be too surprised if this gets 0 replies within a year (heh).
But I was wondering, I come up with riffs all the time - and a lot of times I struggle making them into an entire song. So I was wondering if anyone knows any books FROM THE 80S about metal song writing? I say "from the 80s" specifically because I feel like that would help me authentically learn how to write in this style outside my own basic intuition and taste. I already have a lot of books on lead playing and neoclassical riffs, so that is covered. Just wondering if there were any in the 80s. Thanks.
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bigfootkit
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Re: Songwriting Help

Post by bigfootkit »

No book that fits your requirements springs to mind unfortunately, but songwriting is an interesting topic for discussion & this section of the forum really doesn't see enough action these days.
I sang in bands for years back in the day & always found the songwriting process to be one of the most satisfying parts of the whole thing. None of the bands i was in ever had any trained musicians in their ranks, so the creative process was usually done on a trial & error basis.
It would usually go something like this:
Someone would turn up at rehearsals with a riff or two, we'd jam that for a bit to get the feel of it, then usually someone would feel their way into a change & if we were all liking it, then we'd try & perfect that & get the dynamics of the thing in place. This process would see the song banged into some semblance of order over the weeks with riffs added either through the jamming process or from someone bringing in a part they thought might fit that they'd come up with independently. Eventually the 'shape' & character of the song would just become apparent, and the vocal melodies & lyrical ideas would usually be one of the last things to fall into place, along with the finessing of any guitar solos.
That same process seemed to be much the same in any band i was in over the years whatever people or different instrumentation was involved.
Theory is all well & good and is obviously a hugely useful tool, but you can't beat the tried and tested collaborative methods that musicians in every musical genre have used since year zero.
In other words, find someone to jam with. It doesn't even really matter if you are of the same level of ability or of the same musical taste, as long as everyone's open to bouncing ideas back & forth.
You do get the work done but it's also a lot of fun and it can only make you a better player & songwriter.
Hope my unsolicited ramblings were of some use/interest to you & best of luck with your songwriting efforts. Looking forward to hearing some of your stuff further down the road. The disaffected youth of tomorrow need it! :D
I cannot, I shall not, I will not obey.
Avenger wrote : I'm not a copyright office nor a judicial entity.
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VictimeDelExil
Posts: 51
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Location: Kentucky, USA

Re: Songwriting Help

Post by VictimeDelExil »

bigfootkit wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:33 am No book that fits your requirements springs to mind unfortunately, but songwriting is an interesting topic for discussion & this section of the forum really doesn't see enough action these days.
I sang in bands for years back in the day & always found the songwriting process to be one of the most satisfying parts of the whole thing. None of the bands i was in ever had any trained musicians in their ranks, so the creative process was usually done on a trial & error basis.
It would usually go something like this:
Someone would turn up at rehearsals with a riff or two, we'd jam that for a bit to get the feel of it, then usually someone would feel their way into a change & if we were all liking it, then we'd try & perfect that & get the dynamics of the thing in place. This process would see the song banged into some semblance of order over the weeks with riffs added either through the jamming process or from someone bringing in a part they thought might fit that they'd come up with independently. Eventually the 'shape' & character of the song would just become apparent, and the vocal melodies & lyrical ideas would usually be one of the last things to fall into place, along with the finessing of any guitar solos.
That same process seemed to be much the same in any band i was in over the years whatever people or different instrumentation was involved.
Theory is all well & good and is obviously a hugely useful tool, but you can't beat the tried and tested collaborative methods that musicians in every musical genre have used since year zero.
In other words, find someone to jam with. It doesn't even really matter if you are of the same level of ability or of the same musical taste, as long as everyone's open to bouncing ideas back & forth.
You do get the work done but it's also a lot of fun and it can only make you a better player & songwriter.
Hope my unsolicited ramblings were of some use/interest to you & best of luck with your songwriting efforts. Looking forward to hearing some of your stuff further down the road. The disaffected youth of tomorrow need it! :D
No problem, enjoyed reading your post. I do have a friend who has almost exactly the same musical taste and is of the same skill level - we both jam and come up with riffs yeah - Was mostly curious to see if there were any books to help me hone my songwriting capabilities so to speak. I know some basic theory, my friend knows a bit more - we are trying to get a full band but that is absolutely difficult in our area. So we are just going to self record a demo and hire a singer I guess, which I want to get fairly soon so I've gotten a bit antsy about songwriting. Thanks for the advice.
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bigfootkit
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Re: Songwriting Help

Post by bigfootkit »

VictimeDelExil wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:56 am No problem, enjoyed reading your post. I do have a friend who has almost exactly the same musical taste and is of the same skill level - we both jam and come up with riffs yeah - Was mostly curious to see if there were any books to help me hone my songwriting capabilities so to speak. I know some basic theory, my friend knows a bit more - we are trying to get a full band but that is absolutely difficult in our area. So we are just going to self record a demo and hire a singer I guess, which I want to get fairly soon so I've gotten a bit antsy about songwriting. Thanks for the advice.
Glad you took my unsolicited ramblings as they were intended.
That's great that you have a 'partner in crime' to jam with, you learn so much from playing with other people (even from the inevitable mistakes), and it feels far less like homework than playing alone. I wish you the best of luck with it all.
It's just a pity it appears there aren't as many active musicians on the forum as there once were, but who knows, maybe some have just been waiting for somone to revive this section before they make themselves known.
I cannot, I shall not, I will not obey.
Avenger wrote : I'm not a copyright office nor a judicial entity.
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VictimeDelExil
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:09 am
Location: Kentucky, USA

Re: Songwriting Help

Post by VictimeDelExil »

bigfootkit wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:08 am Glad you took my unsolicited ramblings as they were intended.
That's great that you have a 'partner in crime' to jam with, you learn so much from playing with other people (even from the inevitable mistakes), and it feels far less like homework than playing alone. I wish you the best of luck with it all.
It's just a pity it appears there aren't as many active musicians on the forum as there once were, but who knows, maybe some have just been waiting for somone to revive this section before they make themselves known.
Hopefully there will be some more activity on this forum soon! Really is a shame forums aren't really as big of a thing these days with the advent of FaceBook groups, chat rooms, etc.
It certainly would be nice to see more activity on this section that is for sure.
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