HELL

[Shadow Kingdom]

Since you're going to release all the original masters re-mastered as a bonus CD or download.

I vote physical CD or VINYL! Either as a bonus or a seperate release all together. I know you wouldn't have trouble finding a label to release the original stuff instead of free .wav files...

[ION BRITTON]

I have absolutely no problem paying for a thoroughly done CD or vinyl release. I think that free high quality mp3s is not the best treatment that those songs can get, they surely deserve something more than that.

[The_Real_Mordred]

3 Nuno - all points (and I mean all) taken and understood - I hear you loud and clear, and I'm sure you speak for many. The best way I can find to respond is for you to imagine this........in your 20's you have an amazing relationship with the girl of your dreams. She's beautiful beyond compare, and you're the happiest man alive. But - for reasons you can't control, it doesn't work out and you sadly have to move on and lose her. You still think about her every day, even though it's 25 years since you saw her, and you go to sleep every night wondering what would have happened if circumstances and fate had allowed you to be together. Then one day, suddenly, she walks back into your life by complete chance. Even though it's been a quarter-century, it's like a bomb going off in your head. The magic is still there, the chemistry, the feelings, just everything. Even though you both have a few grey hairs and a few wrinkles, inside you're both still the same people and it's like being born again. THAT, my friend, is what HELL 2009 is all about. The songs are the same, the emotion and commitment within them hasn't diminished - if anything, it's got stronger. Above all - you now have an opportunity to do it all again - but this time, you do it 100% right. The past is important, but it's never going to be as important as the present. Be a part of it, enjoy it, cherish it.

Kev, thanks for the response... I truly enjoy civilized debate even if we're standing on opposite ends of the argument!
The example you just gave, is something I've been through in my life! I even have a son sleeping on the next door that was the offspring of such a relationship!
But (here we go again! )...
I also know that whatever happened, happened! Trying to emulate whatever we had going 10 years ago would be a gross mistake! Why? Simply because we're not those human beings anymore! Life had an effect on me in different ways than it had effect on her. And whoever I AM today is a completely different thing from what I was 10 years ago. Same goes for her! So, it's not simply a case of picking up where we left... As far as our old relationship goes, having it reborn would be completely different as we're (almost) perfect strangers.

I truly think you're doing this with the right mind settings... I also know that you've been so many years away from the Heavy Metal Scene that you probably are a bit puzzled as to why 10 or 20 people on a small message-board are so vocal about this. But this I say to you: these 10 or 20 people and maybe another 500 human beings be it on the internet or not, are what kept REAL Traditional Heavy Metal alive through all these years! Sometimes with lots of personal sacrifices due to this passion they have for Heavy Metal! Sometimes losing all their hard-earned pay to put out releases on small indy labels, or paying for flights to go play some gigs (or attend small festivals) on another country somewhere, or buying shitloads of CD's / vinyls from such small labels! And we were doing this under the radars! We were holding proudly the flags of Metal, while all the "specialized" media were mocking every Traditional Metal release they could find! And guess what? It actually grew! Grew to a point where now the base is wider... And guess what? The bigger labels are now looking at this "underground" and all of a sudden it's "marketable" again. And we have Roadrunner (who turned their backs on Heavy Metal in the early 90's) now suddenly trying to reconnect with the Traditional Metal scene...Earache who has been dismissing traditional forms of Heavy Metal every since they started out, suddenly shouting out "HEAVY METAL IS BACK!" But it isn't, simply because in reality it never disappeared... WE kept it alive! By staying connected amongst ourselves, by creating labels (you have quite a few here on this board, actually), by creating bands that bigger labels never cared about, etc...

So this is why we're so "vocal" about the "non-release" of the HELL box-set on Miskatonic (if it wasn't Miskatonic it could have been Stormspell, or DoomedPlanet Records, or Witches Brew, or whatever other die-hard label that's still around!). Because that release by a label who has been struggling year after year to feed us great unadultered Heavy Metal would be the ultimate tribute to a cult band by a long time fan, for the long time fans! The ones that have known you for quite some time, and have been always here banging their heads to "Let Battle Commence", or "Intense is the Sense of Doom" or "Plague and Fire", or "Blasphemy and the Master", or any other killer tune you wrote! And are able to not give a shit about "production" and actually acknowledge the great music they hear, no matter if it was recorded on a tape recorder or a 4-track portable table!
Even if you record the old stuff on a great studio, there's something that'll always be missing: the flair, the youthful energy! Because no matter how hard we try, the wrinkles have already made their mark (take this as a metaphor! hehehe) and the sense of awe and of creating something unique you guys certainly had 25 years ago cannot be reproduced digitally with dolby surround
Even if you guys do a bonus CD with some old material (please! NOT mp3 downloads!!), which I will eventually buy, I'll still feel like I'm some kind of 2nd-rate fan that was preferred over the 18-to-25-year-old metal-buying bracket! Simply because you could have made the box-set release AND THEN proceed on making the comeback album!
Still, I will not hold it against you (especially since the way you write here only makes me hold you on a higher regard), as it's your, and yours alone, decision!

Cheers!

[Avenger]

They will either be incorporated into the CD package in the form of a second bonus CD, or (more probably) be made available as free high-quality downloads

Real music lovers hate downloads, they just want to buy vinyl.

Release the CD separately from the music of the new project. I think it's important to not lump them together. The early years and the modern shouldn't be forced upon a listener seeking one or the other and that's exactly what you are doing with having them both in the same package. Count me out on this all together if the old material is available through download only. I want a hard copy to hold in my hands, not some data files in a folder on my hard drive.

[Professor Black]

They will either be incorporated into the CD package in the form of a second bonus CD, or (more probably) be made available as free high-quality downloads

Real music lovers hate downloads, they just want to buy vinyl.

Are you speaking for ALL music lovers, or just the ones born after ca. 1920?

[otakon]

real music lovers love MUSIC

sure some 'expert' metal authorities around here hey.... sure you dont download mp3s yourself?

HELL can do whatever they want... i'm still gonna buy it.

[Avenger]

Instead of steering this thread off topic, for anyone that wants to take part in an MP3 debate, feel free to post your opinion here.

[Dodens Grav]

Instead of steering this thread off topic, for anyone that wants to take part in an MP3 debate, feel free to post your opinion here.

That was actually a great read, thanks for the link.

[Korgüll]

I want a hard copy to hold in my hands, not some data files in a folder on my hard drive.

"hear, hear"

[Avenger]

Instead of steering this thread off topic, for anyone that wants to take part in an MP3 debate, feel free to post your opinion here.

That was actually a great read, thanks for the link.

['pataphysicien]

3 Nuno - all points (and I mean all) taken and understood - I hear you loud and clear, and I'm sure you speak for many. The best way I can find to respond is for you to imagine this........in your 20's you have an amazing relationship with the girl of your dreams. She's beautiful beyond compare, and you're the happiest man alive. But - for reasons you can't control, it doesn't work out and you sadly have to move on and lose her. You still think about her every day, even though it's 25 years since you saw her, and you go to sleep every night wondering what would have happened if circumstances and fate had allowed you to be together. Then one day, suddenly, she walks back into your life by complete chance. Even though it's been a quarter-century, it's like a bomb going off in your head. The magic is still there, the chemistry, the feelings, just everything. Even though you both have a few grey hairs and a few wrinkles, inside you're both still the same people and it's like being born again. THAT, my friend, is what HELL 2009 is all about. The songs are the same, the emotion and commitment within them hasn't diminished - if anything, it's got stronger. Above all - you now have an opportunity to do it all again - but this time, you do it 100% right. The past is important, but it's never going to be as important as the present. Be a part of it, enjoy it, cherish it.

Kev, thanks for the response... I truly enjoy civilized debate even if we're standing on opposite ends of the argument!
The example you just gave, is something I've been through in my life! I even have a son sleeping on the next door that was the offspring of such a relationship!
But (here we go again! )...
I also know that whatever happened, happened! Trying to emulate whatever we had going 10 years ago would be a gross mistake! Why? Simply because we're not those human beings anymore! Life had an effect on me in different ways than it had effect on her. And whoever I AM today is a completely different thing from what I was 10 years ago. Same goes for her! So, it's not simply a case of picking up where we left... As far as our old relationship goes, having it reborn would be completely different as we're (almost) perfect strangers.

I truly think you're doing this with the right mind settings... I also know that you've been so many years away from the Heavy Metal Scene that you probably are a bit puzzled as to why 10 or 20 people on a small message-board are so vocal about this. But this I say to you: these 10 or 20 people and maybe another 500 human beings be it on the internet or not, are what kept REAL Traditional Heavy Metal alive through all these years! Sometimes with lots of personal sacrifices due to this passion they have for Heavy Metal! Sometimes losing all their hard-earned pay to put out releases on small indy labels, or paying for flights to go play some gigs (or attend small festivals) on another country somewhere, or buying shitloads of CD's / vinyls from such small labels! And we were doing this under the radars! We were holding proudly the flags of Metal, while all the "specialized" media were mocking every Traditional Metal release they could find! And guess what? It actually grew! Grew to a point where now the base is wider... And guess what? The bigger labels are now looking at this "underground" and all of a sudden it's "marketable" again. And we have Roadrunner (who turned their backs on Heavy Metal in the early 90's) now suddenly trying to reconnect with the Traditional Metal scene...Earache who has been dismissing traditional forms of Heavy Metal every since they started out, suddenly shouting out "HEAVY METAL IS BACK!" But it isn't, simply because in reality it never disappeared... WE kept it alive! By staying connected amongst ourselves, by creating labels (you have quite a few here on this board, actually), by creating bands that bigger labels never cared about, etc...

So this is why we're so "vocal" about the "non-release" of the HELL box-set on Miskatonic (if it wasn't Miskatonic it could have been Stormspell, or DoomedPlanet Records, or Witches Brew, or whatever other die-hard label that's still around!). Because that release by a label who has been struggling year after year to feed us great unadultered Heavy Metal would be the ultimate tribute to a cult band by a long time fan, for the long time fans! The ones that have known you for quite some time, and have been always here banging their heads to "Let Battle Commence", or "Intense is the Sense of Doom" or "Plague and Fire", or "Blasphemy and the Master", or any other killer tune you wrote! And are able to not give a shit about "production" and actually acknowledge the great music they hear, no matter if it was recorded on a tape recorder or a 4-track portable table!
Even if you record the old stuff on a great studio, there's something that'll always be missing: the flair, the youthful energy! Because no matter how hard we try, the wrinkles have already made their mark (take this as a metaphor! hehehe) and the sense of awe and of creating something unique you guys certainly had 25 years ago cannot be reproduced digitally with dolby surround
Even if you guys do a bonus CD with some old material (please! NOT mp3 downloads!!), which I will eventually buy, I'll still feel like I'm some kind of 2nd-rate fan that was preferred over the 18-to-25-year-old metal-buying bracket! Simply because you could have made the box-set release AND THEN proceed on making the comeback album!
Still, I will not hold it against you (especially since the way you write here only makes me hold you on a higher regard), as it's your, and yours alone, decision!

Cheers!

thanks Kev for taking the time to explain your positions. it sounds like you are doing this in the right spirit and I'm looking forward to hearing the album when it comes out.

thanks Nuno for making your positions so clear as well. I agree that the box-set should be a separate physical release. there is just so much magic in those old recordings and they should be allowed to shine on their own and for themselves, not least for the sake of those who have upheld the legacy all this time.

[HumanRemains]

Once again, thankyou very much for the thoughtful replies. You have made your positions regarding downloads vs. a CD or a 'proper' release very clear, so I give you my word that we will re-think this topic. I already explained that I would love to see a vinyl release, and I personally think it would be fair if Rich Walker was given this - if it hadn't been for him, I wouldn't even have known that die-hard fans still existed, and I owe him a great debt of gratitude. He's also 100% genuine, intensely supportive, and one of the most honest people I ever had the pleasure to meet.

It's also obvious that I'm not making myself 100% clear in a number of respects, so I would say the following;

1 I TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY agree with EVERYTHING you say about the legacy (and on a personal note - to uphold the memory of my best friend). Dave was also Andy's best friend - it was Andy who found Dave slumped dead in his car after he'd tragically taken his own life, Andy was left everything in Dave's will - so yeah, it's personal for both of us. BIG TIME. Want some proof? I have pasted below the CD sleeve notes written by Andy to explain why this 2009 project exists. This text also explains why I will defend Andy to the hilt, and I will not hear a single bad word said against that man.

Read this and weep......

“A labour of love” is how I kept hearing Kev Bower refer to this CD that you now hold in your hand throughout the making of it.…..…and he’s right. This has been a dream of mine since the passing of David George Halliday on the 29th January 1987. It’s a dream that has taken over 20 years to come to fruition, but it’s been a very cathartic experience and something I needed to make happen for my own sanity.

Hell were a band that were simply stunning - way ahead of their time - but a band who were also criminally overlooked by the majority of the ‘80s music press who couldn’t see any further than the M25. Those journalists and record labels who claimed that the UK had nothing to offer back then, should have taken note of the devilish goings-on in the deepest, darkest hollows of Derbyshire.

But I digress. Let me firstly tell you about Mr.Halliday and his band of merry men. I first met Dave in February 1982 when I was just 12 years old, having been introduced to him through a friend who was receiving guitar lessons from him. The room at his mother’s house where he used to teach was absolutely covered in clippings from porn mags, and pictures of him onstage with his former band Race Against Time. This, to an aspiring 12-year-old, was highly impressive stuff, and we hit it off immediately. Dave really took me under his wing when he saw the hours of practice and determination I was putting into my playing. He was (and still is, in hindsight) one of the maddest, funniest people I have ever had the honour to meet. He could never do enough to help and was a huge influence on my life. He was both a mentor and best friend.

It was also around this time that he was heavily involved in a new band called Hell. This same friend who had introduced us, dragged me along to a gig of theirs at the Black Horse pub in Somercotes, Derbyshire, and it was there that I witnessed a show – not a gig - that left me absolutely stunned. I remember it like it was yesterday, such was its impact. I doubt whether something like that could even happen in this day and age, what with fire regulations and health & safety spoiling the fun. The theatrics, pyrotechnics, sound and choreography were just breathtaking, the atmosphere utterly enthralling.

To the left was fire-breathing Tony Speakman on bass, his wall of speaker cabinets emblazoned with three spiralled sixes, his tongue blackened with dozens of blackjack sweets. To the right - Kev Bower, breathing out huge clouds of dragon’s breath smoke (powdered indigestion tablets as I later found out) and rapidly switching between guitars and synthesizers with the most amazing, frantic, brutal dexterity. Tim Bowler at the back on drums, his face painted like a porcelain court jester, and in the centre - Dave G. Halliday, the constant showman, off his nut, dressed variously as a studded, black tail-coated metal star, a vicar, a bubonic plague cart master, a dildo wielding flasher - and a pretty damn fine singer and guitar player to boot.

I subsequently saw the band play over 20 times; soaking everything in, and one night at a show in Long Eaton, Derbyshire, in March 1985, Dave introduced me to one Frazer Craske who was looking for a new guitarist. Two weeks later, I met Martin Walkyier who was singing in Hydra with Frazer. Tim Bowler introduced the three of us to Simon Negus……. and Sabbat was born. So you can see the close ties Sabbat had with Hell. We even “borrowed” a couple of their riffs - they had plenty anyway.

Hell rehearsed relentlessly, constantly honing their stagecraft, rewriting and dwelling on song arrangements to a point where I feel they lost a little of their edge, so it’s their earlier rehearsal and gig recordings I’ve taken note of. After over five years of constant gigging and just one self-financed single release (Save Us From Those Who Would Save Us / Deathsquad), the final death knell came when their album deal with Mausoleum fell through after over a year of excuses and inactivity, with the label going bankrupt and Kev leaving the band in absolute despair, to be replaced for the final few wretched months by one of Dave’s guitar pupils, Sean Kelly. It would never be the same again. You can hear their almost tangible pain, disillusionment and frustration on the rehearsal tapes I have been going through.

One thing I felt really dated these old demos were the ‘80’s analogue synth sounds - but there is a real charm to those recordings, and if you listen to songs the way I do, the potential there is incredible - and one that we feel we have now finally realised with these new recordings.

Of course, those of you who knew Dave will agree that Hell could never, ever possibly be the same without him. I’ve scoured the globe to try and find old recordings to lift some of his vocals onto these songs, and if you listen carefully, you will hear him, both in spirit - and occasionally in voice.

Martin Walkyier was really the only guy I could think of to do these songs justice. Although his vocal sound, style and delivery is far removed from Dave’s, he probably saw the band play an equal number of times to me, and only he understood the attitude, direction and deliverance required to give these songs a modern edge and kick them into the new millennium. Along with him, the vocal contributions from Kev (who used to do a lot of split vocals with Dave anyway), along with a sprinkling of the late Mr. Halliday, we hope you will feel that we have captured an energy which sadly left us all too early, but is now back with a raw spirit which could never be silenced.

As the little guy used to say…….. Let Battle Commence!

Enjoy.

Andy Sneap

2 NOW do you understand??

Best wishes Kev

[Sammi Curr]

Just please release the original tracks. Please.

[The_Real_Mordred]

Once again, thankyou very much for the thoughtful replies. You have made your positions regarding downloads vs. a CD or a 'proper' release very clear, so I give you my word that we will re-think this topic. I already explained that I would love to see a vinyl release, and I personally think it would be fair if Rich Walker was given this - if it hadn't been for him, I wouldn't even have known that die-hard fans still existed, and I owe him a great debt of gratitude. He's also 100% genuine, intensely supportive, and one of the most honest people I ever had the pleasure to meet.

It's also obvious that I'm not making myself 100% clear in a number of respects, so I would say the following;

1 I TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY agree with EVERYTHING you say about the legacy (and on a personal note - to uphold the memory of my best friend). Dave was also Andy's best friend - it was Andy who found Dave slumped dead in his car after he'd tragically taken his own life, Andy was left everything in Dave's will - so yeah, it's personal for both of us. BIG TIME. Want some proof? I have pasted below the CD sleeve notes written by Andy to explain why this 2009 project exists. This text also explains why I will defend Andy to the hilt, and I will not hear a single bad word said against that man.

Read this and weep......

“A labour of love” is how I kept hearing Kev Bower refer to this CD that you now hold in your hand throughout the making of it.…..…and he’s right. This has been a dream of mine since the passing of David George Halliday on the 29th January 1987. It’s a dream that has taken over 20 years to come to fruition, but it’s been a very cathartic experience and something I needed to make happen for my own sanity.

Hell were a band that were simply stunning - way ahead of their time - but a band who were also criminally overlooked by the majority of the ‘80s music press who couldn’t see any further than the M25. Those journalists and record labels who claimed that the UK had nothing to offer back then, should have taken note of the devilish goings-on in the deepest, darkest hollows of Derbyshire.

But I digress. Let me firstly tell you about Mr.Halliday and his band of merry men. I first met Dave in February 1982 when I was just 12 years old, having been introduced to him through a friend who was receiving guitar lessons from him. The room at his mother’s house where he used to teach was absolutely covered in clippings from porn mags, and pictures of him onstage with his former band Race Against Time. This, to an aspiring 12-year-old, was highly impressive stuff, and we hit it off immediately. Dave really took me under his wing when he saw the hours of practice and determination I was putting into my playing. He was (and still is, in hindsight) one of the maddest, funniest people I have ever had the honour to meet. He could never do enough to help and was a huge influence on my life. He was both a mentor and best friend.

It was also around this time that he was heavily involved in a new band called Hell. This same friend who had introduced us, dragged me along to a gig of theirs at the Black Horse pub in Somercotes, Derbyshire, and it was there that I witnessed a show – not a gig - that left me absolutely stunned. I remember it like it was yesterday, such was its impact. I doubt whether something like that could even happen in this day and age, what with fire regulations and health & safety spoiling the fun. The theatrics, pyrotechnics, sound and choreography were just breathtaking, the atmosphere utterly enthralling.

To the left was fire-breathing Tony Speakman on bass, his wall of speaker cabinets emblazoned with three spiralled sixes, his tongue blackened with dozens of blackjack sweets. To the right - Kev Bower, breathing out huge clouds of dragon’s breath smoke (powdered indigestion tablets as I later found out) and rapidly switching between guitars and synthesizers with the most amazing, frantic, brutal dexterity. Tim Bowler at the back on drums, his face painted like a porcelain court jester, and in the centre - Dave G. Halliday, the constant showman, off his nut, dressed variously as a studded, black tail-coated metal star, a vicar, a bubonic plague cart master, a dildo wielding flasher - and a pretty damn fine singer and guitar player to boot.

I subsequently saw the band play over 20 times; soaking everything in, and one night at a show in Long Eaton, Derbyshire, in March 1985, Dave introduced me to one Frazer Craske who was looking for a new guitarist. Two weeks later, I met Martin Walkyier who was singing in Hydra with Frazer. Tim Bowler introduced the three of us to Simon Negus……. and Sabbat was born. So you can see the close ties Sabbat had with Hell. We even “borrowed” a couple of their riffs - they had plenty anyway.

Hell rehearsed relentlessly, constantly honing their stagecraft, rewriting and dwelling on song arrangements to a point where I feel they lost a little of their edge, so it’s their earlier rehearsal and gig recordings I’ve taken note of. After over five years of constant gigging and just one self-financed single release (Save Us From Those Who Would Save Us / Deathsquad), the final death knell came when their album deal with Mausoleum fell through after over a year of excuses and inactivity, with the label going bankrupt and Kev leaving the band in absolute despair, to be replaced for the final few wretched months by one of Dave’s guitar pupils, Sean Kelly. It would never be the same again. You can hear their almost tangible pain, disillusionment and frustration on the rehearsal tapes I have been going through.

One thing I felt really dated these old demos were the ‘80’s analogue synth sounds - but there is a real charm to those recordings, and if you listen to songs the way I do, the potential there is incredible - and one that we feel we have now finally realised with these new recordings.

Of course, those of you who knew Dave will agree that Hell could never, ever possibly be the same without him. I’ve scoured the globe to try and find old recordings to lift some of his vocals onto these songs, and if you listen carefully, you will hear him, both in spirit - and occasionally in voice.

Martin Walkyier was really the only guy I could think of to do these songs justice. Although his vocal sound, style and delivery is far removed from Dave’s, he probably saw the band play an equal number of times to me, and only he understood the attitude, direction and deliverance required to give these songs a modern edge and kick them into the new millennium. Along with him, the vocal contributions from Kev (who used to do a lot of split vocals with Dave anyway), along with a sprinkling of the late Mr. Halliday, we hope you will feel that we have captured an energy which sadly left us all too early, but is now back with a raw spirit which could never be silenced.

As the little guy used to say…….. Let Battle Commence!

Enjoy.

Andy Sneap

2 NOW do you understand??

Best wishes Kev

Kev:
Always understood since the beginning! And I think you also understood what I've been saying! Thank you very much for this debate, was truly appreciated.
I want to wish this "new incarnation" of HELL the best of luck! And if you license those old recordings to Rich for a release, I'd say no one can ever hold any grudge against HELL! If they do, they're idiots, anyway!
THANK YOU!

[HumanRemains]

I gave you my word that we would re-think this, and I genuinely care about what people like you think - you're the lifeblood and it's you guys who give us a reason to do what we do.

I talked with Andy today, and I can now confirm that the album will be a double-sided CD. All the new stuff on one side, flip it over and all the remastered original stuff will be on the reverse.

People power........

Best wishes Kev