Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

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Warepire
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Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Warepire »

So, in the light of the new Classix bootlegs and the "how to identify them" on Discogs, posted by heavymetalmuseum.
For example, this one: https://www.discogs.com/FN-Guns-Wild-Ch ... se/8225065
Combined with stories I've heard regarding some new re-run by the Mausoleum manager and sold the newly printed CD to BattleCry, right before he died... It calls for a proper thread in order to figure out what is what, and more importantly, how to tell everything apart.

The re-run story sounds insane to me, but it is supported by the fact that the covers of the 3 CDs outlined below that I bought sealed, are the highest print quality I've ever seen for a bootleg.

There doesn't seem to be a single sure-fire way to determine what is a bootleg or not, besides the matrix area which is slightly different compared to the Killer CD or Warhead CD I got before 2016.
But my Beast and EF Band CDs don't look legit to me, yet at least the Beast matrix looks legit, but the covers are exactly like the 3 I bought sealed most recently. EF Band doesn't feature a release list, but the list by heavymetalmuseum says there are exceptions to that one specifically.

The most interesting thing is that ALL my Classix CDs fails the so called "light test" in the exact same way, which is claimed to be the only way to safely tell them apart. But I am decently sure my Killer and Warhead CDs are legit.

So, I've scanned every Classix CD I have, in as high detail and quality as my scanner allows, in hope with the help of others here who owns Classix CDs, specifically those who bought them early, figure out how to properly tell these new ones apart from the old ones. And to determine if they are boots or actually legit.
My money is currently on Bootleg.

Since I couldn't find an image host that doesn't re-scale the images, I uploaded them to a file host instead. Link to all the scans: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5k-5 ... 08ya2U1cWM

Beast
Bought - Feb 2016
Fails light test, cut matrix area, full release list inside

EF Band
Bought - Feb 2016
Fails light test, full matrix area, cd looks flamish, no release list inside

Dark Wizard
Bought - May 2016
Fails light test, strange matrix font, covers are blurry, front insert smaller, full release list inside
Most likely a bootleg.

Atlain
Bought - Sep 2016 (sealed)
Fails light test, full matrix area, full release list inside
Seller associated with BattleCry, said this is a new batch made by Mausoleum, who then suddenly died, right after selling all the stock to BattleCry

Witchfynde
Bought - Sep 2016 (sealed)
Fails light test, full matrix area, full release list inside, title on spines says "Lords of Sun"
Seller associated with BattleCry, said this is a new batch made by Mausoleum, who then suddenly died, right after selling all the stock to BattleCry

Ostrogoth
Bought - Sep 2016 (sealed)
Fails light test, full matrix area, full release list inside
Seller associated with BattleCry, said this is a new batch made by Mausoleum, who then suddenly died, right after selling all the stock to BattleCry

If It's Loud We're Proud
Bought - Sep 2016
Fails light test, full matrix area, weird matrix font, covers have the same issue as Dark Wizard, full release list inside
Same bootleg(?) run as Dark Wizard?
Spines have been removed, and replaced with a printed copy (done on purpose?), this one is "scrap" for me, but I included it anyway for completeness sake.

Warhead
Bought - Jan 2015
Fails light test, full matrix area, no release list inside

Killer
Bought - Jan 2012
Fails light test, cut matrix area, darker smaller covers, same darkness as Dark Wizard but no blur, no release list inside
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by ION BRITTON »

I was always suspicious of all those Mausoleum Classix CDs that have turned up the last years and never bought one myself. And I don't mean only the 2016 run as listed in discogs. Those Ostrogoth CDs for example couldn't be found so easily for a good number of years and then all of a sudden somewhere in the md-late 00s they were sold in M condition from various sellers, especially european ones. I'm generally skeptic about the legitimacy of such copies in situations like this. The few ones I bought over the years simply confirmed my suspicions.
Good against Evil, Evil sure to win

"It really didn't matter if they liked it or not, i was going to give it to them straight down their throats" -John Stewart
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Avenger »

This has been discussed here before.

There is a very simple way to tell. The originals have a ring around the outside of the matrix on the playing side of the CD where as the bootlegs do not. The originals also have the matrix off set often partially cut off by the print of the non playing side. The bootlegs are perfectly centered.

I don't buy any other bullshit stories that bootleg sellers will commonly spread to try and justify their motives.

If it wasn't pressed in 1994, it's not authentic.


I aso have no idea what the hell a "light test" is? The eye test is the only one that matters.
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Warepire »

Avenger wrote:This has been discussed here before.
Yes, and now there are new bootleg runs, improved. I also named the thread "Yet another [...]", way to go paying attention.
Avenger wrote:There is a very simple way to tell. The originals have a ring around the outside of the matrix on the playing side of the CD where as the bootlegs do not. The originals also have the matrix off set often partially cut off by the print of the non playing side. The bootlegs are perfectly centered.
So, every CD I have except for Killer is a bootleg then?
Avenger wrote:I don't buy any other bullshit stories that bootleg sellers will commonly spread to try and justify their motives.
Why do you even think I wrote that I believe it to be false? I wasn't joking.
Avenger wrote:If it wasn't pressed in 1994, it's not authentic.
Wow, I wish I thought of this myself! Since you're so clever, you'd also figure out I wasn't old enough to collect CDs back in 1994 and thus I have to try to find them now, among the bootlegs.
Avenger wrote:I aso have no idea what the hell a "light test" is? The eye test is the only one that matters.
If you read the discogs entry I linked to, you'd know.
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Avenger »

Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:This has been discussed here before.
Yes, and now there are new bootleg runs, improved. I also named the thread "Yet another [...]", way to go paying attention.
The problem is these may not be "new"... That also depends on what your definition of "new" is. Scumbags pushing bootlegs will always lie. Who knows when these were really pressed?
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:There is a very simple way to tell. The originals have a ring around the outside of the matrix on the playing side of the CD where as the bootlegs do not. The originals also have the matrix off set often partially cut off by the print of the non playing side. The bootlegs are perfectly centered.
So, every CD I have except for Killer is a bootleg then?
I would say yes. I'm on a work PC currently where the network blocks downloads so I'm unable to view your images. If you prefer I look at them I would ask that you upload them to a hosting website like photobucket. If these are quality scans then they will be clear enough to tell even while being resized.
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:I don't buy any other bullshit stories that bootleg sellers will commonly spread to try and justify their motives.
Why do you even think I wrote that I believe it to be false? I wasn't joking.
I was agreeing with you. Relax. I don't see the point in asking for an opinion from more experienced collectors that actually own most of these if you are going to get upset in what they tell you.
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:If it wasn't pressed in 1994, it's not authentic.
Wow, I wish I thought of this myself! Since you're so clever, you'd also figure out I wasn't old enough to collect CDs back in 1994 and thus I have to try to find them now, among the bootlegs.
Same answer as above. I was agreeing with your statement that this particular seller is spreading nonsense. Put away the hatchet.
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:I aso have no idea what the hell a "light test" is? The eye test is the only one that matters.
If you read the discogs entry I linked to, you'd know.
Funny how in 16 years of dealing CD's I have never heard of this. I deem this not an impoartant factor similar to guys that claim something "smells old". It's irrelevant. I also don't value the opinion of guys tthat regularily sell on discogs very highly. I can count numerous times where I've made purchases from there and an item is incorrectly listed. Or a bootleg is listed under a legitimate entry and then when you point it out they deny it. I've given up correcting them and simply don't care at this point. Take what they say with several grains of salt. I've come to the conclusion that discogs is a haven for bootleg sellers because the listings do not require pictures and when you ask for them most of the sellers do not reply or are too lazy to do so.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Warepire »

Avenger wrote:
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:This has been discussed here before.
Yes, and now there are new bootleg runs, improved. I also named the thread "Yet another [...]", way to go paying attention.
The problem is these may not be "new"... That also depends on what your definition of "new" is. Scumbags pushing bootlegs will always lie. Who knows when these were really pressed?
I never seen this "run" before 2016, so I am inclined to believe at least the sealed ones are from this year.
Avenger wrote:
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:There is a very simple way to tell. The originals have a ring around the outside of the matrix on the playing side of the CD where as the bootlegs do not. The originals also have the matrix off set often partially cut off by the print of the non playing side. The bootlegs are perfectly centered.
So, every CD I have except for Killer is a bootleg then?
I would say yes. I'm on a work PC currently where the network blocks downloads so I'm unable to view your images. If you prefer I look at them I would ask that you upload them to a hosting website like photobucket. If these are quality scans then they will be clear enough to tell even while being resized.
They block google drive? That's actually impressive. I'll make an imgur album as an alternative link.
Please do take a look.
Avenger wrote:
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:I don't buy any other bullshit stories that bootleg sellers will commonly spread to try and justify their motives.
Why do you even think I wrote that I believe it to be false? I wasn't joking.
I was agreeing with you. Relax. I don't see the point in asking for an opinion from more experienced collectors that actually own most of these if you are going to get upset in what they tell you.
The wording was mocking / condescending, so I was paying back with sarcasm. Relax.
Avenger wrote:
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:If it wasn't pressed in 1994, it's not authentic.
Wow, I wish I thought of this myself! Since you're so clever, you'd also figure out I wasn't old enough to collect CDs back in 1994 and thus I have to try to find them now, among the bootlegs.
Same answer as above. I was agreeing with your statement that this particular seller is spreading nonsense. Put away the hatchet.
As above.
Avenger wrote:
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:I aso have no idea what the hell a "light test" is? The eye test is the only one that matters.
If you read the discogs entry I linked to, you'd know.
Funny how in 16 years of dealing CD's I have never heard of this. I deem this not an impoartant factor similar to guys that claim something "smells old". It's irrelevant. I also don't value the opinion of guys tthat regularily sell on discogs very highly. I can count numerous times where I've made purchases from there and an item is incorrectly listed. Or a bootleg is listed under a legitimate entry and then when you point it out they deny it. I've given up correcting them and simply don't care at this point. Take what they say with several grains of salt. I've come to the conclusion that discogs is a haven for bootleg sellers because the listings do not require pictures and when you ask for them most of the sellers do not reply or are too lazy to do so.
I've never heard of this test either, potential trick to get people to sell their legit ones?
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Warepire »

Imgur albums, they refused to stay sorted when uploaded as a single album.

Atlain - http://imgur.com/a/92vFb
Beast - http://imgur.com/a/SW2TK
Dark Wizard - http://imgur.com/a/h6jkK
EF Band - http://imgur.com/a/pLjbJ
If It's Loud We're Proud - http://imgur.com/a/Qzl47
Killer - http://imgur.com/a/4X9JY
Ostrogoth - http://imgur.com/a/wiqry
Warhead - http://imgur.com/a/hFqMz
Witchfynde - http://imgur.com/a/ZUC5e
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Avenger »

Warepire wrote:Imgur albums, they refused to stay sorted when uploaded as a single album.

Atlain - http://imgur.com/a/92vFb
Beast - http://imgur.com/a/SW2TK
Dark Wizard - http://imgur.com/a/h6jkK
EF Band - http://imgur.com/a/pLjbJ
If It's Loud We're Proud - http://imgur.com/a/Qzl47
Killer - http://imgur.com/a/4X9JY
Ostrogoth - http://imgur.com/a/wiqry
Warhead - http://imgur.com/a/hFqMz
Witchfynde - http://imgur.com/a/ZUC5e
I finally returned home and had the opportunity to look at your scans.

The Dark Wizard, Ostrogoth, Warhead and Witchfynde are bootlegs. The rest are fine.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Warepire »

Avenger wrote:
Warepire wrote:Imgur albums, they refused to stay sorted when uploaded as a single album.

Atlain - http://imgur.com/a/92vFb
Beast - http://imgur.com/a/SW2TK
Dark Wizard - http://imgur.com/a/h6jkK
EF Band - http://imgur.com/a/pLjbJ
If It's Loud We're Proud - http://imgur.com/a/Qzl47
Killer - http://imgur.com/a/4X9JY
Ostrogoth - http://imgur.com/a/wiqry
Warhead - http://imgur.com/a/hFqMz
Witchfynde - http://imgur.com/a/ZUC5e
I finally returned home and had the opportunity to look at your scans.

The Dark Wizard, Ostrogoth, Warhead and Witchfynde are bootlegs. The rest are fine.
Not to be "that guy", but if Ostrogoth is a boot, then Atlain is a boot, as they were bought from the same batch.
Beast and EF Band both lack that extra inner ring. EF Band's CD looks pretty flamish as described earlier.
Would you mind checking again?
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by J. »

What's the story with the Mausoleum Classix version of Wolf -Edge of the World ? Just ordered a copy last week and now I see this thread. :?
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Avenger »

Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:
Warepire wrote:Imgur albums, they refused to stay sorted when uploaded as a single album.

Atlain - http://imgur.com/a/92vFb
Beast - http://imgur.com/a/SW2TK
Dark Wizard - http://imgur.com/a/h6jkK
EF Band - http://imgur.com/a/pLjbJ
If It's Loud We're Proud - http://imgur.com/a/Qzl47
Killer - http://imgur.com/a/4X9JY
Ostrogoth - http://imgur.com/a/wiqry
Warhead - http://imgur.com/a/hFqMz
Witchfynde - http://imgur.com/a/ZUC5e
I finally returned home and had the opportunity to look at your scans.

The Dark Wizard, Ostrogoth, Warhead and Witchfynde are bootlegs. The rest are fine.
Not to be "that guy", but if Ostrogoth is a boot, then Atlain is a boot, as they were bought from the same batch.
Beast and EF Band both lack that extra inner ring. EF Band's CD looks pretty flamish as described earlier.
Would you mind checking again?
The spacing of the text is compeltely different between those two. You don't think it's possible that someone could of sold a bootleg with a legit CD?

Either way, I'm looking at a flat 2D scan here. A lot can be determined by the quality of the disc itself, the printing on the label side, etc but I can't conclude this without holding it in my hands personally.

Are the dropbox scans higher quality? If so I'll give those a look in a couple of days time.
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Avenger »

J. wrote:What's the story with the Mausoleum Classix version of Wolf -Edge of the World ? Just ordered a copy last week and now I see this thread. :?
This was never part of the original series and put out just a few years back.

100% bootleg.

It's never been officially pressed on CD format at this point.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Warepire »

Avenger wrote:
Warepire wrote:
Avenger wrote:I finally returned home and had the opportunity to look at your scans.

The Dark Wizard, Ostrogoth, Warhead and Witchfynde are bootlegs. The rest are fine.
Not to be "that guy", but if Ostrogoth is a boot, then Atlain is a boot, as they were bought from the same batch.
Beast and EF Band both lack that extra inner ring. EF Band's CD looks pretty flamish as described earlier.
Would you mind checking again?
The spacing of the text is compeltely different between those two. You don't think it's possible that someone could of sold a bootleg with a legit CD?

Either way, I'm looking at a flat 2D scan here. A lot can be determined by the quality of the disc itself, the printing on the label side, etc but I can't conclude this without holding it in my hands personally.

Are the dropbox scans higher quality? If so I'll give those a look in a couple of days time.
The spacing is not different at all in my opinion... And if you read above, they were all bought sealed, from a guy who stocks from BattleCry, and checking Discogs, BattleCry only carry the boots.

The google drive scans are the exact files my scanner spat out.
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by J. »

Avenger wrote:
J. wrote:What's the story with the Mausoleum Classix version of Wolf -Edge of the World ? Just ordered a copy last week and now I see this thread. :?
This was never part of the original series and put out just a few years back.

100% bootleg.

It's never been officially pressed on CD format at this point.

Damn, thanks - 25 euros down the drain. Oh well, live & learn.

:evil:
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Re: Yet another Mausoleum Classix bootlegs thread

Post by Avenger »

Warepire wrote:The spacing is not different at all in my opinion... And if you read above, they were all bought sealed, from a guy who stocks from BattleCry, and checking Discogs, BattleCry only carry the boots.

The google drive scans are the exact files my scanner spat out.
The text of the Ostrogoth rides way higher then the Atlain. Like I said earlier, most of the legitimate discs have the matrix text cut off by the center hub as the discs were never placed 100% center on the glass master when being pressed.

The outside ring spacing is also different.

Either way, at this point I feel your trying to start an argument rather then look for a second opinion. Perhaps looking else where is a better alternative.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"
stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."
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