Aurophon "Brainstorm" CD series bootlegs

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Heathen
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Post by Heathen »

I'd like to hear what exactly is it with matrix of the CD that Avenger has that makes him think its a boot.
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Avenger
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Post by Avenger »

Heathen wrote:I'd like to hear what exactly is it with matrix of the CD that Avenger has that makes him think its a boot.
The matrix text is slightly smaller and a slightly different font then all of the other "LORDISC" Aurophon CD's. The spacing isn't right. The matrix sequence does not match the others as "DIGIP" is missing. You can't really see from the scan but the rings in the clear center hub are jagged and not perfect circles. The graphics on the top of the disc are uneven and don't have smooth edges.

Everything about this screams bootleg when you closely see it in person.

Now you see why I was stating earlier that it's very close.
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Heathen
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Post by Heathen »

I admit I can't explain why the "DIGIP" part is missing. You left me with a feeling that it can be a boot after all.

Here is a photo of my copy. Looks damn convincing if you ask me...

Image
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Post by Avenger »

Heathen wrote:I admit I can't explain why the "DIGIP" part is missing. You left me with a feeling that it can be a boot after all.

Here is a photo of my copy. Looks damn convincing if you ask me...

Image
If you take the disc and flex it a bit beween your fingers it feels cheap too. Like I said, it's very close but I think this is a bootleg.
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Post by slayerhatesusall2 »

Heathen wrote:I admit I can't explain why the "DIGIP" part is missing. You left me with a feeling that it can be a boot after all.

Here is a photo of my copy. Looks damn convincing if you ask me...

Image
Different cd, but my copy of Sacrifice- on the altar of rock cd on aurophon has pretty much the exact same matrix design as that, same design, same font size, only difference is the number in matrix is 031705 1. There is no "DIGIP" in its matrix.
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Avenger
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Post by Avenger »

slayerhatesusall2 wrote:
Heathen wrote:I admit I can't explain why the "DIGIP" part is missing. You left me with a feeling that it can be a boot after all.

Here is a photo of my copy. Looks damn convincing if you ask me...

Image
Different cd, but my copy of Sacrifice- on the altar of rock cd on aurophon has pretty much the exact same matrix design as that, same design, same font size, only difference is the number in matrix is 031705 1. There is no "DIGIP" in its matrix.
My copy is different from this one.

Matrix: AU 31705

I bought it still sealed from a very reputable big name seller about 7 or 8 years ago. It's still in the original 80's/90's thick style jewel case of course.
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Heathen
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Post by Heathen »

OK, I am again *almost* sure that the CD is original. proof? it's matrix is every detail (except for what's is written on it, of course) identical to many CDs that were pressed in the same year and are known to be 100% original. Here is an example, you can compare it to the photo I posted a few posts back. This is Hexenhaus - The Edge Of Eternity:

Image

Everyone who says the Death Squad pressed by Lordisc is a boot because the matrix looks bad is also saying that this Hexenhaus is a boot (as the matrix is the same).
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Avenger
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Post by Avenger »

Heathen wrote:OK, I am again *almost* sure that the CD is original. proof? it's matrix is every detail (except for what's is written on it, of course) identical to many CDs that were pressed in the same year and are known to be 100% original. Here is an example, you can compare it to the photo I posted a few posts back. This is Hexenhaus - The Edge Of Eternity:

Image

Everyone who says the Death Squad pressed by Lordisc is a boot because the matrix looks bad is also saying that this Hexenhaus is a boot (as the matrix is the same).
Just because they managed to get the font partically right doesn't mean it's legit. You are also comparing two different labels here. Does the "Deathsquad" disc not feel cheap to you?
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Post by Heathen »

Its not that the "font" is "partially" right, all is identical. Those two statements are fundamentally different. The font, the stripes, the circles, the light reflections, the rectangular objects on both sides of matrix text - everything is, or seems to me anyway, identical.

To this day no boot has matrix identical (or similar to such degree) to any legitimate CD matrix circa 1990. This would be the only known exception and I am not buying it.
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Post by humus »

Heathen wrote:To this day no boot has matrix identical (or similar to such degree) to any legitimate CD matrix circa 1990. This would be the only known exception and I am not buying it.
How would you know it's a bootleg if it's completely identical.
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Post by Heathen »

pure logic says that I wouldn't know, but that does not bring any meaningful input to the discussion about Darkness CD. Unless you want to argue it is a bootleg that looks identical to the original CD?

I wanted to stress something that I see as a good principle - if a CD looks exactly like a known original, it is wise to assume that it is an original too.
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Post by humus »

I didn't even read what CD you guys were discussing because that's not of interest to me. Just saw your remark and had to comment on that.

I think I've read here a few times that the bootlegs are sometimes very hard to distinguish i.e. a space where there shouldn't be one etc. That seems like a human mistake in producing the bootlegs, and one that would be easy to correct. Hence it's my opinion that identical bootleg CD's must already out there.
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Avenger
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Post by Avenger »

Heathen wrote:Its not that the "font" is "partially" right, all is identical. Those two statements are fundamentally different. The font, the stripes, the circles, the light reflections, the rectangular objects on both sides of matrix text - everything is, or seems to me anyway, identical.

To this day no boot has matrix identical (or similar to such degree) to any legitimate CD matrix circa 1990. This would be the only known exception and I am not buying it.
You do know that MPO (France) and Lordisc are two different plants, right?
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Post by Stormspell »

Yakish wrote:Many questions about old CDs will stay unanswered, until someone who was related in producing them back in those ancient days can tell us.
For example:
Why 2 on 1 versions of Gravestone and Stormwitch on Scratch Records (Japan) or 2 on 1 Artillery on Roadrunner version omitted tracks?
Because the cd pressing plant in Hannover was built by Philips following their initial specification of 60 minute capacity, and it took them awhile to update it to accommodate the 74 min format. It was a technical limitation at the time and those 2-on-1 had to be shortened to 60 minutes.
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Post by Stormspell »

Prowler wrote:But I remember that you as band/label can ask for the glass matrix. Since you've paid for it, it's legally yours.
Some pressing plants will let you specify your own "Mirror band ID", others will simply use the album/title of the project. In either case you do not have control over font / position / spacing /extra parts and/or numbering the pressing plant may add on their own.

Furthermore: There is no real price-break over certain quantity, so instead of one big pressing, labels often would prefer to go in smaller increments and re-press if/when needed. As I said before, plants only keep glass matrixes for a limited time, and then if you re-order at later date, they just create a new matrix which naturally is slightly different, especially in font/position/spacing department.

Also, major manufacturers often own multiple pressing plants, and your order may be split and printed in parts at several different locations. OR when re-pressing it can be re-pressed at different locations, which would result in different looking matrix numbers/appearances.

OR, if your order is big, and the manufacturer has the capacity, they may make two matrixes and use two pressing lines to press your order faster => different looking matrixes within the same pressing batch.

Third: A label may work with a dealer, who uses multiple pressing plants. Like for instance for early Stormspell releases I used a local dealer called New Cyberian who works with at least 3 different plants, maybe even more. They would never tell you the name of the plants since this is how they make their profit, so even I don't know where some of my releases have been pressed... => different titles from Stormpell catalog look completely different, are they bootlegs? Of course not

Unless you worked for a label and know how those cds were procured, a slightly different matrix means nothing.
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