Savatage 'Sirens' Different Label Colors?

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perishinflames
Posts: 1539

Post#16 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:28 pm

glockose wrote:but the black streak in the vinyl is also Odd
I would guess one of the first copies pressed after a black vinyl pressing? I don't know much about the manufacturing process, but I have heard of colors "leaking" between pressings.

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Glockose
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Post#17 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:29 pm

Khnud wrote:
glockose wrote: Avatar Silver Label
Avatar White Label
Isn't the bootleg a white label also? How do you tell the difference from the legit white label and the bootleg?
The PS is the real give away.

The real copies have rounded edges
The boot is cut straight
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Khnud
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Post#18 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:32 pm

Got it! Thanks! :-)
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Blast you with their twisted minds, behold the Dogs Of War.

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Glockose
Posts: 1291

Post#19 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:36 pm

perishinflames wrote:
glockose wrote:but the black streak in the vinyl is also Odd
I would guess one of the first copies pressed after a black vinyl pressing? I don't know much about the manufacturing process, but I have heard of colors "leaking" between pressings.
That is how it works.
A GOOD press will clear the unit between colors, BUT most don't so you get a few like this either way you go. The press should put these in the trash to recycle but again most dont and count them thord your colored run.

White first all should be clean since the unit would have been clean between jobs but then when you start running Black you get a few white streaks.

Black first you get the opposit effect with a few Black streaks.

OPM on the other hand used A&R which never really cleaned the unit very well as we sometimes ended up with bleeding befor and after a color run.

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chatzial
Posts: 1154

Post#20 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:05 pm

Khnud wrote:
glockose wrote: Avatar Silver Label
Avatar White Label
Isn't the bootleg a white label also? How do you tell the difference from the legit white label and the bootleg?
Of course there are the sleeve differences (round edges, different colour).
But there are a couple of minor vinyl differences, also.

The original has thicker vinyl. Also the "sirens" would be cut if it was opened for jukebox.

Original white label:
Image

Bootleg white label:
Image

TheGreatEscape
Posts: 173

Post#21 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:48 pm

Khnud wrote:
glockose wrote: Avatar Silver Label
Avatar White Label
Isn't the bootleg a white label also? How do you tell the difference from the legit white label and the bootleg?

Yes, there are also bootleg copies with white labels too ...


I made a few pictures for a friend years ago, with these you should be able to tell bootleg or original:

I used the same color of arrows in all of the following pictures:

Red Arrows = Bootleg
Yellow Arrows = Original


This is the picture of the bootleg, front sleeve:

Image

The upper edges are straight, not rounded



This is the picture of the bootleg, back sleeve:


Image

The upper edges are straight, not rounded, The print on one side is cut off.



This is the picture of the original, back sleeve:

Image

You can clearly see the differences:

The upper edges are rounded
Front part of sleeve is bigger than back part, so you can see the white back of the front at the opening
The print is clear and complete



Now I have a picture of the original over the bootleg; first front, then back:

Image


Image


There's a clear difference between original (see yellow arrows) and bootleg (see red arrows).

And there's also a difference by Matrix:

Originals: PAR-1002-A / B KKmastering


Bootlegs: PAR-1002-A / B


"KK mastering" is missing in the matrix of the bootlegs (I have seen many many copies in other collections and on record fairs [boots and originals] and the boots never had these "KK mastering" in the matrix. So I think this is a clear proof which you can check very easily.

I don't know if there's a bootleg with silver labels, always seen white ones.


Hope this helps!

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Khnud
Posts: 2420

Post#22 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:13 pm

Very informative! Thank you very much, all three of you.
Laugh at you in ecstasy, wallow in the gore.
Blast you with their twisted minds, behold the Dogs Of War.

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Glockose
Posts: 1291

Post#23 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:24 pm

Yes Very Nice.

Thank You
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