Legit, Not Legit, Who Cares?

nightsblood · Post by **nightsblood** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:44 pm

good topic, and as we can see from the replies, one that isn't very clear-cut.

Personally I've never messed with getting bootlegs except in a few cases, and some of those i thought were 'legit' issues at the time. I would never knowingly spend much $$ for a bootleg. I'll admit I don't have a strong moral conviction against bootlegging, but it's not something I'd readily condone either.

One thing I don't have much sympathy for is when someone buys a boot and then complains about the sound quality and/or packaging. The fact that it's a boot tells you the person is out to make a quick, shady buck, so why in the world would you buy it expecting a professional looking- and sounding product? Yes, some bootleggers put out nice products, but that's the exception.

The bootlegging issue is inextricably tied to the colelcting boom. With so many people clamouring to hear every single demo, live show, compilation appearance, etc from every small-time band that existed 20+ years ago, it creates a demand that is only gonna be met by bootlegging. Many of the bands people wanna hear are never gonna put out new, official copies of their material.... alot of them probably don't even have original masters or good-quality copies to work with. And even if a nice, legit version is available, they tend to be limited pressings on small labels so many folks may not know about the release.

File-sharing on the internet can help reduce demand for bootleg copies, but even that has some limits. Some items are difficult to find downloadable copies of, much less copies with good sound quality. The situation is getting better, but it still has a ways to go. While some collectors are very cool about making stuff available to others, there are still lots of people that 'hoard' their collection, refusing to record stuff for anyone out of fear that it will reduce the prestige and value of thier own collection. And there are those folks who are just not satisfied with mp3s; they want a tangible product in their hands, even if it's not 'legit'.

Personally, I've become pretty content to settle for decent mp3s of many items. Alot of stuff is well beyond my price range, so my options are thus:
1- break the bank to pay for an original. I refuse to do this; I am not putting myself in debt to buy records. Trading for them is also an option, but it can be very difficult to work out a trade among high-dollar items; the other person doesn't want your rare item, or one side feels the trade is uneven, or you just don't have an item of similar value that you want to get rid of.
2- buy a bootleg or reissue if one exists. If one is available, nicely put together, and I can get it for a reasonable price, I'll do this for an album I like.
3- download/trade burns for it. Yes, mp3s aren't 'collectible' (no artwork or inserts or such) but they are a very convenient format AND you can enjoy the music just fine (unless they're very low quality or you're one of those people that insist "only vinyl is tr00"). They also work well for me becuase, while I like to hear alot of the obscure releases, I try to limit my collection to music I really like, regardless of how rare or valuable it is. Thus, mp3s offer an easy, cheap way to check things out for fun.

Korgüll · Post by **Korgüll** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:27 am

Abyss wrote:are any of these legit?

http://www.discogs.com/label/Unisound+Records

They're all legit I'm sure. I used to deal with Panos when I did distro years ago & he was ok. But their was always an air of mystery surrounding him...& whether his releases were official as far as having a deal with the band.
He was interested in signing the band I was in back then...

Korgüll · Post by **Korgüll** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 am

Abyss wrote:This guy on ebay is one I see selling those

http://myworld.ebay.com/metalslaves/

most likely the same person or an associate

http://myworld.ebay.com/hmkidd1/

as the location is only 11 miles away.

I'm sure all these guys selling the same stuff over & over all buy/trade from the same people & with each other. It's all linked at the end of the day..
...as long as they're cheap then I don't care.

Abyss · Post by **Abyss** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:01 am

Korgüll wrote:
Abyss wrote:are any of these legit?

http://www.discogs.com/label/Unisound+Records
They're all legit I'm sure. I used to deal with Panos when I did distro years ago & he was ok. But their was always an air of mystery surrounding him...& whether his releases were official as far as having a deal with the band.
He was interested in signing the band I was in back then...

Well I assume they wouldn't be listed there if they were bootlegs, I own all the bootlegs I listed I got them for 3 us dollars each from sentinel steel's used section and I didn't know they were bootlegs at the time so I am not too concerned about anyone making a sizable profit off them.

Black Axe · Post by **Black Axe** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:05 am

Korgüll wrote:
Abyss wrote:are any of these legit?

http://www.discogs.com/label/Unisound+Records
They're all legit I'm sure. I used to deal with Panos when I did distro years ago & he was ok. But their was always an air of mystery surrounding him...& whether his releases were official as far as having a deal with the band.
He was interested in signing the band I was in back then...

You should've shot him in the face...

He is a fucking bootlegger and he didn't even pay the few bands(the majority at least) that were in business with him.

Abyss · Post by **Abyss** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:07 am

I wouldn't pay this guy either.

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=21761

Black Axe · Post by **Black Axe** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:09 am

Abyss wrote:I wouldn't pay this guy either.

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=21761

Why not? He'd probably kill you if you didn't.

Abyss · Post by **Abyss** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:13 am

I seriously doubt that, anyone who shows up at my house looking for trouble is gonna get a shotgun blast to the gut. there is also the fact he is thousands of miles away.

He obviously hasn't killed panos so maybe he got payed or maybe he isn't as violent as you assume.

Black Axe · Post by **Black Axe** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:28 am

Abyss wrote:I seriously doubt that, anyone who shows up at my house looking for trouble is gonna get a shotgun blast to the gut. there is also the fact he is thousands of miles away.

He obviously hasn't killed panos so maybe he got payed or maybe he isn't as violent as you assume.

If he got payed, he would have released a second album/EP.

Abyss · Post by **Abyss** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:02 pm

If he truly cared about his "art" he would have released it on his own.

khiijol · Post by **khiijol** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:53 pm

AxeCrazy wrote:
Shadow Kingdom wrote:This day an age, I figure we can all make our own covers, back inserts, etc and just settle for a CDR and stick it in the collection?
I agree. I've been burned in the past buying bootlegs and will not do it again. You spend lots of money and get a CD where half the tracks are mis-spelled, poor CD pressings, and on some of them, the vinyl that was recorded even skips.

Avoid bootlegs at all costs. If you really want something, just download it and burn a CDR.

agreed 100% for bootleg cds... bootleg (or "fan club", as i've seen it refered to) vinyl on the other hand can be nice if its at a reasonable price, and looks/sounds good

mordred · Post by **mordred** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:56 pm

Korgüll wrote:It was unofficially re-released around 2002. There is only very little difference between the original and the bootleg. The original CD (48:33) is six seconds longer than the bootleg (48:27) and it has "Printed in Canada" on the backcover and inside the booklet. Furthermore, the colors of the cover are slightly different - the bootleg is a little bit darker.

I have an official one, my barcode is: 018777251822

Thanks!
Mine is 48:35 though.

It has "printed in Canada" pinted both on the back cover and inside the booklet, but I still kinda doubt the authenticity of the cover. The colours look fine and the print quality too, but the booklet paper is kind of glossy, not the kind you'd expect from a cd pressed in 1991.

Nicko McBuff · Post by **Nicko McBuff** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:04 pm

Well I care. I don't like bootleg CDs, that pose as supposed legit reissues... you are scum if your dishing out such crap. They really piss me off. I hate finding out that my shiny spanking new Malisha Serve Your Savage Beast (that vegascds fag) or Obsession Methods Of Madness cd (metal mayhem) is a bootleg and that I've made some cock funnel $20 richer. I bet these dealers with their trickery have never worked a day in their lives, thats my hard earned moula down the drain and so when I'm ripped off I think they deserve to be castrated with a rusty diseased blade! They like many other twats out there think they're doing some kind of service to the music, metalheads etc... they're not.

I know I'm dumb for those 2, I'll be more alert in the future when I'm buying items on ebay blery eyed after a long shift and a week of no sleep.

That said, HOORAY for LEGIT reissues. They're great. Bring them on.

Korgüll · Post by **Korgüll** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:32 pm

Nicko McBuff wrote:Obsession Methods Of Madness cd (metal mayhem) is a bootleg

I'm pretty sure this is an 'official' re-issue Nicko?!
The CD has a barcode, usually a good sign. But I guess still doesn't mean much.

hload · Post by **hload** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:37 pm

1. AGONY - The first Defiance CD

2. APOCRYPHA - The Eyes of Time CD

3. APOCRYPHA - Area 54 CD

4. APOSTLE - Prepate to meet... CD

5. ASPHYX - The Rack CD

6. ATTILA – Rollin’ thunder CD

7. BANSHEE – Race against time CD

8. BLITZKRIEG - A Time of Changes CD

9. BLOODLUST - Terminal Velocity + Guilty as Sin CD

10. CHINA – Same CD

11. COBRA - Warriors of the Dead + Back from the Dead CD

12. COVEN - Blessed is the Black CD

13. CYCLONE - Inferior to None CD

14. DAMMAJ - Mutiny CD

15. DAMIEN - Angel Juice CD

16. DARK STAR - Same CD

17. DEATHROW - Raging steel CD

18. DEATHROW - Satan´s Gift + Riders of Doom CD

19. DIAMOND HEAD - Borrowed Time CD

20. DIAMOND HEAD - Canterbury CD

21. EASTCOAST - Same CD

22. EMERALD / ORACLE - Armed for Battle / Selah CD

23. EXE - Sicker than I thought CD

24. EYES - Same CD

25. FIFTH ANGEL - Same CD

26. FIFTH ANGEL - Time will tell CD

27. FORCE 3 - Warrior of Light CD

28. GLASGOW - Same CD

29. HEATHENS RAGE - EP + Unreleased songs CD

30. HEAVEN'S EDGE - Same CD

31. HEAVY LOAD - Death or glory CD

32. HEAVY LOAD - Stronger than evil CD

33. HEXENHAUS - A tribute to Insanity CD

34. HEXENHAUS - Edge of Eternity CD

35. HEXENHAUS - Awakening CD

36. HURRICANE - Over the Edge CD

37. HURRICANE - Slave to the Thrill CD

38. I.N.C. - Razorback CD

39. I.N.C. - Visitor CD

40. INCUBUS - To the devil a daughter CD

41. JULLIET - Same CD

42. LAAZ ROCKIT - Nothing Sacred CD

43. LAAZ ROCKIT - No stranger to Danger CD

44. LAAZ ROCKIT - City's Gonna Burn CD

45. LEGEND - From the Fjords CD

46. MESSIAH FORCE - The Last Day CD

47. MILLENNIUM - Same CD

48. MYTHRA – Death and Destiny CD

49. NUCLEAR ASSAULT - Survive CD

50. ONSLAUGHT - In search of Sanity CD

51. OZ - III Warning + Decibel Storm CD

52. OZ – Hey You + Fire in the brain CD

53. PAGANINI - It's a long way to the top CD

54. PAGANINI - Weapon of Love CD

55. PANTERA – Power Metal CD

56. RANKELSON – Hungry for Blood + The Bastards of Rock n’ roll CD

57. REALM - Suiciety CD

58. RECON - Behind Enemy Lines CD

59. RIGOR MORTIS - Same CD

60. ATTACK - Return of the evil CD

61. RODS - Heavier Than Thou + Holywood Project CD

62. ROKO - Same CD

63. ROKO – Think about tomorrow CD

64. SACRED REICH – American Way CD

65. SACRED REICH - Surf Nicaragua CD

66. SACRED WARRIOR - Rebellion CD

67. SATAN - Court in the Act CD

68. SAVAGE GRACE - After the fall from Grace CD

69. SAVAGE STEEL - Do or Die CD

70. ANACRUSIS - Reason CD

71. SHIVA - Firedance CD

72. SHOK PARIS – Steel and Starlight CD

73. SIREN - Financial Suicide CD

74. SKAGARACK - Same CD

75. SKAGARACK - Hungry for a Game CD

76. SKAGARACK - A slice of Heaven CD

77. SORTILEGE - Heroe's Tears CD

78. SORTILEGE - Metamorphose CD

79. SORTILEGE - Same CD

80. STEELER - Same + Rulin’ the earth CD

81. TANK - Same + Power of the hunter CD

82. TYGERS OF PAN TANG - Spellbound CD

83. TYGERS OF PAN TANG - Wild Cat CD

84. TYGERS OF PAN TANG - Crazy Nights CD

85. TYKETTO - Don't come easy CD

86. TYTON - Mind Over Metal + Castle Donington CD

87. VALENTINE - Same CD

88. VANADIUM - Seventh Heaven CD

89. VANADIUM - Corruption of Innocence CD

90. VANADIUM - Metal Rock + A race the devil CD

91. VANADIUM - Born to fight + Game over CD

92. VARIOUS - KENT ROCKS + IT'S UNHEARD OF! CD

93. VISITOR - Same CD

94. VXN – Winter Crys CD

95. WORLD WAR III – Same CD

96. WRATHCHILD - Trash Queens CD

97. XENTRIX - For whose advantage CD

98. XENTRIX - Shattered CD

99. ZNOWHITE - Act of God CD

100. FAITHFUL BREATH - Back on my hill + Live CD