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mordred wrote:My favorite album from them is Operation Mindcrime, it's a top 10 album of all time for me,

It's a top 1 album of all time for me. And it's definetly metal. But it is their last metal album.

Operation: Mindcrime is a Hard Rock record. Maybe 2 tracks still have hints of the past but the majority is not much different in heaviness then the majority of the hair bands of that period. Classic status is definitely a matter of opinion but calling this Metal is using the term rather loosely.

Avenger wrote:Operation: Mindcrime is a Hard Rock record. Maybe 2 tracks still have hints of the past but the majority is not much different in heaviness then the majority of the hair bands of that period. Classic status is definitely a matter of opinion but calling this Metal is using the term rather loosely.

When you say :
"...the majority is not much different in heaviness then the majority of the hair bands of that period." what do you mean? Hair Metal ?

Sorry my friend but this is not hard rock.
Hard Rock is way different kind of music.
And also hair metal is way too different.

When "Operation Mindcrime" was released it was labeled as progressive metal and in that time period Dream Theater, Queensryche and Fates Warning were the leaders of progressive metal.

chatzial wrote:

Avenger wrote:Operation: Mindcrime is a Hard Rock record. Maybe 2 tracks still have hints of the past but the majority is not much different in heaviness then the majority of the hair bands of that period. Classic status is definitely a matter of opinion but calling this Metal is using the term rather loosely.

When you say :
"...the majority is not much different in heaviness then the majority of the hair bands of that period." what do you mean? Hair Metal ?

Sorry my friend but this is not hard rock.
Hard Rock is way different kind of music.
And also hair metal is way too different.

When "Operation Mindcrime" was released it was labeled as progressive metal and in that time period Dream Theater, Queensryche and Fates Warning were the leaders of progressive metal.

Yeah, and back in 1984 Running Wild was called "Black Metal". That doesn't make it true today.

Avenger wrote:

chatzial wrote:

Avenger wrote:Operation: Mindcrime is a Hard Rock record. Maybe 2 tracks still have hints of the past but the majority is not much different in heaviness then the majority of the hair bands of that period. Classic status is definitely a matter of opinion but calling this Metal is using the term rather loosely.

When you say :
"...the majority is not much different in heaviness then the majority of the hair bands of that period." what do you mean? Hair Metal ?

Sorry my friend but this is not hard rock.
Hard Rock is way different kind of music.
And also hair metal is way too different.

When "Operation Mindcrime" was released it was labeled as progressive metal and in that time period Dream Theater, Queensryche and Fates Warning were the leaders of progressive metal.

Yeah, and back in 1984 Running Wild was called "Black Metal". That doesn't make it true today.

Difference is that all the prog metal bands and fans considered Queensryche as pioneers of prog metal but i don't think that any black metal bands or fans considered Running Wild to be black metal.

prog(ish) elements are few and far between on O:M (there are more on previous two albums), but there is metal all over the album. Heavy metal, hair metal, prog metal - you name it. It's not hard rock, the musicanship is too tight, the drumming too intense, the guitars too heavy, the solos too aggressive. Metal with ballads if you will.

chatzial wrote:

Avenger wrote:

chatzial wrote:
When you say :
"...the majority is not much different in heaviness then the majority of the hair bands of that period." what do you mean? Hair Metal ?

Sorry my friend but this is not hard rock.
Hard Rock is way different kind of music.
And also hair metal is way too different.

When "Operation Mindcrime" was released it was labeled as progressive metal and in that time period Dream Theater, Queensryche and Fates Warning were the leaders of progressive metal.

Yeah, and back in 1984 Running Wild was called "Black Metal". That doesn't make it true today.

Difference is that all the prog metal bands and fans considered Queensryche as pioneers of prog metal but i don't think that any black metal bands or fans considered Running Wild to be black metal.

Already been over this:

Avenger wrote:Queensryche after "The Warning" started to sell out and drastically lose they're Metal edge.

I'm not talking about the early days.

Regarding the "Black Metal" label you would be surprised what I've seen from the user base on the metal archives boards.

Heathen wrote:the musicanship is too tight, the drumming too intense, the guitars too heavy, the solos too aggressive.

You obviously haven't heard any Hard Rock outside of AC/DC.

Expand your horizons.

The guitar sound/weight doesn't make a genre. The playing is indeed very hard rocking.

Black Axe wrote:The guitar sound/weight doesn't make a genre. The playing is indeed very hard rocking.

I disgree. Operation : Mindcrime is FULL of METAL riffs and IT IS METAL RECORD.But they're just different. And the main difference is in breaking some basic stereotypes. QUEENSRYCHE just showed that Heavy Metal can sound Modern (back in 1988) and progressive as well as not being another PRIEST / MAIDEN clone.

A semantic discussion that's not only completely uninteresting, but also completely off-topic? How surprising...

Khnud wrote:A semantic discussion that's not only completely uninteresting, but also completely off-topic? How surprising...

You are right. Which is why I am splitting this thread and we can discuss "Operation: Commercial-Crime" in a seperate thread.

branding O:M as hard rock is plain wrong, but tagging it commercial can only be described as an aberration and a true mindcrime. It's a masterpiece both lyrically and songwriting-wise (and especially vocally) and yet obviously all you can hear on the record are the catchy choruses. Your horizons are so far away from one another that you have no clue what happens in between.

"Operation Mindcrime" isn't Hard Rock ... different kind of Metal but it's Metal thru and thru. If you say AC/DC is typical Hard Rock and O/M too than yiou can clearly hear the difference why it something called Hard Rock because it's basically (heavier) Rock, which OM isn't.

As for Black Metal term, everything that had blackish lyrics in the 80's fitted the term Black Metal and was labeled as Black Metal. Don't confuse Black Metal of the 80's with Black Metal of the 90's that was mainly connected with the classic BM sound that is known today. Most of the bands of that music genre don't even deserve to rink Euronymous' piss because they just lended the BM sound but lyrically are Pagan or Wood Metal which has NOTHING in common with BLACK Metal in general. I kinda find it always funny if a certain people call a band Black Metal just because they have stolen the BM sound while their lyrics are dealing with norse mythology and all that celtic shit. What does it matter how a god is called if Wotan or Jehova or whatever, religion is religion ...

Nope its not metal whats next Extremes Pornograffitti is Heavy Metal?