Conspiracy theories:Who really wrote Headless Cross and TYR?

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:43 am

Prowler wrote:Only "TYR" I said. lol
Not "Headless cross" ... "Headless cross" still has those Sabbath influences of the albums released before, but "TYR" hasn't ...

PS: How much beers did I inhale when I've started this topic? I must have been completely drunk as I have no clue anymore ...

"Headless Cross" and "TYR" both went in the same direction. I don't see how one apparently has "Sabbath influences" and the other doesn't.

Black Axe · Post by **Black Axe** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:07 am

Prowler wrote:PS: How much beers did I inhale when I've started this topic? I must have been completely drunk as I have no clue anymore ...

It's one of those mod conspiracies. You just posted it in the "Important Records you've yet to hear?" topic.

Death Rider · Post by **Death Rider** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:38 pm

I was with Tony Martin recently, while visiting Greece. We went out for lunch and we also attend the Accept gig in Athens. It was nice to see him, 'cause Sabbath is my fave band and we are good friends.

So, what I know from him is that he was writing all the lyrics and vocal melodies of all the Sabbath albums he was part of and also he did write some music. Except from The Eternal Idol - all the material in that record was ready before he started recording his vocals. Especially in Tyr, he was feeling as an equal part of the band (he was taking waaaaaaaay less money from Iommi during his Sabbath years) and he contributed as an equal member also, writing also half of the music along with Iommi.

Lama · Post by **Lama** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:33 pm

Death Rider wrote:I was with Tony Martin recently, while visiting Greece. We went out for lunch and we also attend the Accept gig in Athens. It was nice to see him, 'cause Sabbath is my fave band and we are good friends.

So, what I know from him is that he was writing all the lyrics and vocal melodies of all the Sabbath albums he was part of and also he did write some music. Except from The Eternal Idol - all the material in that record was ready before he started recording his vocals. Especially in Tyr, he was feeling as an equal part of the band (he was taking waaaaaaaay less money from Iommi during his Sabbath years) and he contributed as an equal member also, writing also half of the music along with Iommi.

Ha, interesting!

More stuff we need to hear from the Iommi/Martin-years?

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:08 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKoyCBeK ... re=related

Heathen · Post by **Heathen** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:26 pm

Death Rider wrote:I was with Tony Martin recently, while visiting Greece. We went out for lunch and we also attend the Accept gig in Athens. It was nice to see him, 'cause Sabbath is my fave band and we are good friends.

So, what I know from him is that he was writing all the lyrics and vocal melodies of all the Sabbath albums he was part of and also he did write some music. Except from The Eternal Idol - all the material in that record was ready before he started recording his vocals. Especially in Tyr, he was feeling as an equal part of the band (he was taking waaaaaaaay less money from Iommi during his Sabbath years) and he contributed as an equal member also, writing also half of the music along with Iommi.

I think that's the explanation. That's why I'd rather call myself a Tony Martin fan than a Black Sabbath fan. I don't want to underestimate Iommi's input into Tyr and HC, but Without Martin BS leaves me cold more often than not.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:21 am

Yup.

"Black Sabbath"
"The Wizard"
"Behind The Wall of Sleep"
"N.I.B."
"Sleeping Village"
"War Pigs"
"Planet Caravan"
"Electric Funeral"
"Hand of Doom"
"Fairies Wear Boots"
"Sweet Leaf"
"After Forever"
"Children of the Grave"
"Lord of this World"
"Solitude"
"Into The Void"
"Wheels of Confusion"
"Tomorrow's Dream"
"Supernaut"
"Snowblind"
"Cornucopia"
"St. Vitus Dance"
"Under The Sun"
"Sabbath Bloody Sabbath"
"A National Acrobat"
"Killing Yourself To Live"
"Looking For Today"
"Spiral Architect"
"Hole In The Sky"
"Symptom of the Universe"
"Megalomania"
"Thrill of it All"
"All Moving Parts Stand Still"
"Dirty Women"
"Shock Wave"
"Air Dance"
"Swinging The Chain"
"Neon Knights"
"Children of the Sea"
"Lady Evil"
"Heaven And Hell"
"Wishing Well"
"Die Young"
"Lonely Is The Word"
"Turn Up The Night"
"Voodoo"
"The Sign of the Southern Cross"
"Country Girl"
"Falling Off the Edge of the World"
"Over And Over"
"Disturbing the Priest"
"Zero the Hero"
"Born Again"
"Seventh Star"
"Danger Zone"
"In Memory"
"The Shining"
"Ancient Warrior"
"Glory Ride"
"Nightmare"
"Eternal Idol"
"Letters From Earth"
"I"

...There sure never was anything of worth to come out of that band's existence save for when Tony Martin blessed them...

Ernest Thesiger · Post by **Ernest Thesiger** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:30 am

If Heathen doesn't like them, then he doesn't like them. Shame, though.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:59 am

I can see how someone that only likes Metal in the traditional 80's styles would not like a lot of the 70's material. Not every song is for example "Children Of The Grave" or "Symptom Of The Universe". Not to say that's a bad thing but there is a lot of "hippy rock" stuff on the earlier albums as well. I have seen arguments from guys into 60's and 70's Rock state that Black Sabbath is not a Metal band and this has a bit of merit granted that a fair share of the time they weren't in the early days.

I guess it depends what path you took when first listening to music. If you started with the basics and moved your way up then you will appreciate the "proto-metal" years as well.

Heathen · Post by **Heathen** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:49 pm

Ernest Thesiger wrote:If Heathen doesn't like them, then he doesn't like them. Shame, though.

I am simply not into this kind of music too much, but don't get me wrong - I know that their Ozzy days are their most acclaimed ones and I can understand why.

I am wondering though - if Tyr came out in 1970, what would it's reception be.

daniel · Post by **daniel** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:54 pm

From Tonymartin.net:

"4) Tony I really enjoyed your work with Sabbath. My questions: Did you write all the lyrics singlehandedly? Did you ever make any suggestions about guitar riffs, bass riffs, drum fills etc.? Do you play any instruments and if so will you be playing any either in concert or an upcoming album? (David Gabaldon)

Hi David, Lyrics yes, I wrote them all. Riffs, only one or two, mainly so that I link up the music to where I needed to sing. I play lots of instruments not very well but It don’t stop me from learning new things."

"31) How much decision making went on when you were in the band (creation of songs, song lists for a tour, etc)? Did everyone contribute in some way or was it understood that it was Iommi's band and that he made the decisions? (Edward Dolle)

Ooooooh!!!!! Political this one!!! Ok it was like this, All the decisions were taken by the management, who took their directions from Tony Iommi. We peasants didn’t really get much say in what went on. A few small things but nothing major. Probably quite rightly, since you can’t have that many line ups in a single band and expect all the members to start picking things apart but hey!!!"

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:51 pm

Is question #31 only refering to the specific details mentioned or regarding all contributions towards "decision making"?

If it's in regards to everything then between question #4 and #31 Mr. Martin seems to have contradicted himself.

Of course, I may be reading too far between the lines here.