old and new black metal

[tomas]

i was wondering which band first made 'new school' black metal. I'm talking about high pitched shrieks, fuzzy riffs, lots of blasts...
when did the 'old school' black metal (sarcofago, destruction, parabellum, treblinka, ...) turn into the new school?

I really don't have a clue. maybe it's darkthrone? although Von introduced some kind of new black metal style, but without the shrieky vocals ...

help me out here !!!

[odin]

The common consensus is that Bathory started the second wave of black metal but I'm gonna lean towards Tormentor's - Anno Domini as one of the first as well or Master's Hammer Rituál as these bands had full lengths out and such but I sure as hell wouldn't call it "new school", many say von influenced the norwegian scene heavily as you also said,I'm sure there are tons of bands with demos way earlier but not many bands with full lengths sounding like this before 1990.

[omen of hate]

Difficult question !!!

VON, BEHERIT, SARCOFAGO and MAYHEM have started the 2nd wave I guess.
SARCOFAGO brought the corpse paints. VON and MAYHEM the typical BM sound, but I'm not convinced more than that !!

I wouldn't say DARKTHRONE, they started first as a Death Metal band (the demos and "Soulside Journey" are 100% Death Metal), they suddenly changed their style and jumped in the BM wagon.

[Korgüll]

IMO Darkthrone were the first ones to really emulate the sound of early Bathory or Celtic Frost & do it really well. Deliberate sloppy playing, tinny whiny guitar, under-production, corpse-paint etc...
I guess they were the first really popular BM band to take it to the next level ('new wave'?) when 'A Blaze...' came out.
MAYHEM, BEHERIT & SARCOFAGO, VON etc.. were the tail end of the original BM sound, but at the time I always considered them 'Death Metal', even Bathory, but with Satanic imagery. Of course Venom penned the term, but DT were the ones for me to create the 'new wave'
Them along with Emperor, Enslaved, Satyricon & Cradle Of Filth (first album)
...then all the sheep came along and copied these bands and it got a little out of control & childish...

[metalmaster]

Venom created Black Metal, Bathory and Hellhamer/Celtic Frost took it to the next level, after that, not much have improved I'm afraid, at least from the Norwegian side.

The funny thing about this all is that many young boys call the Norwegians as the creators of Black Metal (or at least of the "second wave"). To be honest they were the very last ones to play Black Metal. Mayhem with their "Deathcrush" album were far of Black Metal in all senses. I think the earliest Black Metal examples (after Mayhem of course) in Norway were born by 1991. there were many BM bands around before in Norway. Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Singapour, Japan, Greece, Hungary, France, Holland, Poland etc had BM bands long before Norway.

Dark Throne and Burzum did not invent nor created anything. Aren`t they cheap copies of Bathory? Just listen to DT, it is Bathory in a deliverately more noisy style. There is not personlaity in DT Black Metal albums. At least thier Death Metal period had touches of originality and personality. Isn't the first Burzum albums also a simplistic Bathory copy, just with a bit more screaming vocals plus these mediocre keyboards? I would say that Mayhem had much more personality in their "De mysteriis..." album. Von?? what the fuck was VON before this Varg guy wishpered about them years ago? They were nothing (well now they are "cult").

To copy (or emulate) Bathory and Celtic Forst do not make you a Black Metal band for sure. This all BM shit makes me puke for sure.

[peterott]

I would say Bathory (founded 1982/83), Hellhammer (founded 1981/82) and Poison (founded 1982). Here the music changed towards are more harder stuff (Death Metal like) with satanic lyrics. I wouldn't say Venom even if they have an album with that title, but this is discussable... The "nordic" Black Metal sound however is definitly from Bathory.

I'd also have to mention Mayhem as well as early Samael (also started to record already their BlackDoom oriented stuff in 1987)

[The Sentinel]

Bathory has indeed influenced them all, and IMO Bathory still reigns supreme.

There are some "new" black metal bands that are worthwhile for me but not many. I enjoy the early Dissection works, some Immortal records, the second Darkthrone and some others...but that's it.

[Mr Nuke]

Do some of you guys enjoy bands like COUNTESS, ZEMIAL, HAIL or FAUSTCOVEN?

They, all in their own way, manage to keep their faith in the old Metal spirit with a strong move towards the 90's Black-Metal standards IMO.

[ION BRITTON]

Do some of you guys enjoy bands like COUNTESS, ZEMIAL, HAIL or FAUSTCOVEN?

They, all in their own way, manage to keep their faith in the old Metal spirit with a strong move towards the 90's Black-Metal standards IMO.

Man ZEMIAL slay! "Sleeping under Tartarus" 7'', what a fuckin' masterpiece!

[peterott]

Do some of you guys enjoy bands like COUNTESS, ZEMIAL, HAIL or FAUSTCOVEN?

They, all in their own way, manage to keep their faith in the old Metal spirit with a strong move towards the 90's Black-Metal standards IMO.

the last Zemial CD "In MonumentuM" is one of the most beautiful Black Metal CDs ever. I love it. So much Bathory worship, but completly unique at the same time.

Hail is another issue. Their CD is close to perfection. Haunting DeathDoom, incredible basic raw sound, and the riffs drive you mad...

[metalmaster]

Do some of you guys enjoy bands like COUNTESS, ZEMIAL, HAIL or FAUSTCOVEN?

They, all in their own way, manage to keep their faith in the old Metal spirit with a strong move towards the 90's Black-Metal standards IMO.

I prefer and enjoy any of them than all those "Black" bands uing industril crap, or this gothic shit, not to mention those who love to use electro and still dare to call themselves Black Metal

[odin]

Do some of you guys enjoy bands like COUNTESS, ZEMIAL, HAIL or FAUSTCOVEN?

They, all in their own way, manage to keep their faith in the old Metal spirit with a strong move towards the 90's Black-Metal standards IMO.

I prefer and enjoy any of them than all those "Black" bands uing industril crap, or this gothic shit, not to mention those who love to use electro and still dare to call themselves Black Metal

have you ever heard Ehecatl - Tiahtocayotl Amiquini (Immortal Realm)?

[Noisenik]

Mr. Nuke wrote:

Do some of you guys enjoy bands like COUNTESS, ZEMIAL, HAIL or FAUSTCOVEN?

They, all in their own way, manage to keep their faith in the old Metal spirit with a strong move towards the 90's Black-Metal standards IMO.

You mean Hail who released Inheritance of Evilness?

Regarding Countess: I saw quite positive reviews on EM about their three latest releases. Really so good or ... ?

Didn't evenknow they released so many albums.

[Noisenik]

odin wrote:

have you ever heard Ehecatl - Tiahtocayotl Amiquini (Immortal Realm)?

are they straight BM or have they infused some native mexican elements into their music?

[odin]

odin wrote:

have you ever heard Ehecatl - Tiahtocayotl Amiquini (Immortal Realm)?

are they straight BM or have they infused some native mexican elements into their music?

Its straight black metal but its very atmospheric.

http://www.ehecatl.cjb.net/ I used to have the demo downloaded but It got lost some how,the sound quality on the website is shit but it might give you an idea.