Master Of Puppets

sovdat · Post by **sovdat** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:54 am

I love Ride the Lightning as well, but the lyrical approach is a bit too personal, while AJFA went into the political stuff and KIEA was a product of its time ... I totally agree with what Lars once said about Master: (something like) It's an album about a paralyzed man, who can't control his own life, he's directed by society, etc.

And then you have ... Master of Puppets - drug, The Thing That Should Not Be - fear, Leper Messiah - money, greed, Sanitarium - old war heroes, locked up in a Sanitarium, not able to lead their life as they want (convinced that they're insane), Disposable Heroes - soldiers as plain war machines, without mind, feelings, etc., .....

Korgüll · Post by **Korgüll** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:28 pm

'Ride The Lightning' is the ONLY Metallica (or should I say 'tallica?) album I can bear to listen to!

...the rest is 'yawn'!

...I guess i liked 'Kill em all' when I was younger, but i haven't listened to it for years now & probably wont for a long while yet! There's much more out there to discover, talk about & listen to!

Post by **DaN** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:04 pm

I'd say "Kill 'em All" is one of those albums that, had it been some forgotten band's one-off release, would have been an immortal underground classic. It really is an AMAZING, energy-packed, brutal Heavy Metal album in its own right. Its impact and importance on the development of Metal cannot be underestimated. Not so with MOP though, great as it may be.

Noisenik · Post by **Noisenik** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:22 pm

Techno thrash owes a lot to it. And most of Bay Area thrash from end of 80's too. Actually I dare to say that it is as important for Thrash Metal as a subgenre as it was Sgt. Pepper for Prog back in the day. An album with which TM made a quantum leap.

At the very beginning I didn't like it much. I think I grasped it after 20th or so spin - almost two years after I acquired it. Suddenly I was in another perspective. I wouldn't say it's that difficult. It seems one has to be in proper mood to start gettin' into.

Albums which need to be listen a lot to get anything from them, are the most suitable for my taste. Some others have pleased me after the first spin, but failed to satisfy me after 4th or 5th listen.

Mr Nuke · Post by **Mr Nuke** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:04 pm

They were better bands playing technical Thrash-Metal at this time, CORONER being the first name that comes to mind.

Master of Puppets isn't a bad album in itself, but Kill'em all and Ride the Lightning are the only METALLICA albums worth owning IMO.
Well, I guess I'm an alien, but if an album bores me, be it a classic or not, I don't care having it at home. And Master of puppets bored me. Not that much, but it did.

Noisenik · Post by **Noisenik** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:47 pm

@ Mr. Nuke

There were, but Coroner were demo band, still obscure and unknown to all but the most dedicated demotraders. Same for Mekong Delta, Testament, ... Annihilator were also deep in the abyss at the time. MOP was released on Feb. 21st acc. to MA, so it must be pretty well diseminated until say May 21.st. I don't know but dare to say Coroner did not released Deathcult at the time. VoiVod were firmly in the RoaR grip at same time - released March 13th. Until MOP the only TT- resembling thing was Energetic Disassembly, and even this is debatable, as everything and as was seen in some other threads. That means that at the time only MOP was given chance to spread the possibility of changing paradigm.

However, I might be wrong. Additional information always welcome.

Mr Nuke · Post by **Mr Nuke** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:01 pm

Well, I don't think that this album wasn't influencial. It' just that I prefer a lot more the other bands. Otherwise thanks for the interesting information!

I admit being not that much into Metal history. I'm more interested in the ideological/lyrical side of things outside music than the "historical" one. Even if I'm of course not totally ignorant!

Azaras · Post by **Azaras** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:22 pm

A pretty boring album, if you ask me. Nowhere near deserving of the praise it receives. The only reason it gets to the top of so many lists is that every music critic knows METALLICA; they DO NOT know bands like CIRITH UNGOL, DARK ANGEL, MORBID SAINT, MANILLA ROAD, and so on, what to say of really obscure bands... Therefore the album gets judged often by those with a very slim understanding of metal to compare it to.

"Kill 'Em All" is their best, and then just because it's like a can of NWoBHM concentrate: just add water.

Crows In Black · Post by **Crows In Black** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:53 pm

I NEVER understood why this is considered Metallica's best album or why people love it so much. Even back when I first got into music in general and started listening to Metallica, I got MOP and thought it sucked. All the songs are boring, the production sucks, there is just nothing interesting on the whole album. I think its probably one of the most overrated albums ever. In my opinion the only thing Metallica did that was any good was Kill em All, Ride the Lightning, and some of And Justice for All.

DMR · Post by **DMR** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:45 am

I think it's a pretty weak album. For every cool riff, there are plenty of really fucking boring parts. I don't even think it's influential, it's just popular. I can't think of too many bands that sound like Metallica, but I'm sure we've all heard hundreds of bands that sound like Slayer, or Iron Maiden, or Judas Priest, etc.

Post by **DaN** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:56 am

Of course it's one of the (if not thee) most overrated albums ever, but "overrated" never meant "bad" imo. "Battery", titletrack, "Damage Inc" etc.. all great Metal whichever way you look at it. On the other hand most of the songs have been played to death on parties, clubs, etc, so it's hardly an album you'd put on in the comfort of your home anytime soon.

That's a sad subject btw - great, classic albums played to death. "So should I go for VALOR tonight or 'Piece Of Mind'?"

Brainbiter · Post by **Brainbiter** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:27 am

DaN wrote:That's a sad subject btw - great, classic albums played to death. "So should I go for VALOR tonight or 'Piece Of Mind'?"

You should go for Paranoid.

Helm · Post by **Helm** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:35 am

Noisenik wrote:@ Mr. Nuke

There were, but Coroner were demo band, still obscure and unknown to all but the most dedicated demotraders. Same for Mekong Delta, Testament, ... Annihilator were also deep in the abyss at the time. MOP was released on Feb. 21st acc. to MA, so it must be pretty well diseminated until say May 21.st. I don't know but dare to say Coroner did not released Deathcult at the time. VoiVod were firmly in the RoaR grip at same time - released March 13th. Until MOP the only TT- resembling thing was Energetic Disassembly, and even this is debatable, as everything and as was seen in some other threads. That means that at the time only MOP was given chance to spread the possibility of changing paradigm.

However, I might be wrong. Additional information always welcome.

From the horse's mouth. Ralph Hubert of Mekong Delta has explained that Mekong Delta came to exist because then drummer and original member Jorg Michael played him 'Fight Fire With Fire' and he said 'that's great, but I can do this better, and more complicated.' And he did. Recorded some scratch tracks, Jorg learned the parts, Peavey helped, there you go.

From the other side of the technothrash pond, Watchtower carried no Metallica influence of note directly. SA Slayer of course were well aware of the bay area, but Billy White (who is responsible for the original technothrash record) had much more of a classical metal influence mixed with jazz. Watchtower's first LP has been historically catalogued on being a great influence conceptually and technique-wise for Lars Ulrich, who is mainly responsible for the direction of Metallica during '...And Justice For All'. Metallica start bringing technothrash 'to the masses' as it were with this record, and countless latter-day TT bands carry the influence from them and not directly from Mekong Delta, Watchtower or Voivod.

Voivod have no metallica influence that I've heard of, nor can any be discerned during their spaceoid-TT period. Voivod shone as their own sun.

Azaras · Post by **Azaras** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:53 am

Brainbiter wrote:Master of Puppets is one of those 10/10 albums in Heavy Metal for one trully simple reason that beats up the thin sound, bad drumming and the additional 2 min to Disposable Heroes: it could have been released tomorrow. Songwriting is free from that 80's metal quality that other great albums like Show No Mercy or Peace Sells have, thus making it a true classic and not just a great heavy metal album that is a product of its time.

With all due respect, Brainbiter, do you really think it's a quantifier of quality that the album "could have been released tomorrow"? Lots of albums that will be released tomorrow will be shit...

IF Show No Mercy or Peace Sells have a more '80s sound to them, good. That sound is better than most modern metal styles. I for one love the '80s sound - sure, bands like Slayer and Megadeth aren't as iron-weight HEAVY as the '70s bands, but they are much more brutal and energetic. It's awesome.

Helm · Post by **Helm** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:02 am

We say 'timeless classic' for a reason. I think that's what Brainbiter means when he says it could be released tomorrow. Not to fit tomorrow's groove, but in that it fits in every groove.