"The New Heavy Metal Movement"...

[FuneralCircle]

curious sidenote on Enforcer (since seems the main topic) i noticed some days ago while checking one of their new songs in their myspace.

listen to the verses in midnight vice track and then play Dangerous Toys´s debut and compare

oh wait Dangerous Toys is not true metal!

Are you under the impression that I think Enforcer are not true metal? A band can be "true" and suck ass...

See I understand what you're trying to get at- heavy metal has kind of become some sort of marketable commodity- somehow it's cool to be uncool if you get my drift, but there is genuinely a huge difference between some of the bands you mentioned.

Alright, I think we can agree on that then.

[MEXDefenderOfSteel]

curious sidenote on Enforcer (since seems the main topic) i noticed some days ago while checking one of their new songs in their myspace.

listen to the verses in midnight vice track and then play Dangerous Toys´s debut and compare

oh wait Dangerous Toys is not true metal!

Are you under the impression that I think Enforcer are not true metal? A band can be "true" and suck ass...

See I understand what you're trying to get at- heavy metal has kind of become some sort of marketable commodity- somehow it's cool to be uncool if you get my drift, but there is genuinely a huge difference between some of the bands you mentioned.

Alright, I think we can agree on that then.

ha i didnt imply that,sorry if you got the impression, i just found it funny for the people that have blind devotion to that band, compare them to a hard rock record like Dangerous Toys and make them realize is a pretty common sound

[FuneralCircle]

Ah alright!! Sorry, I misunderstood. Don't mean to act like I'm all uptight or some shit.

[Dodens Grav]

I would first just like to clarify that nothing I said was meant as a slight in any way, nor anything I'm about to say.

Of course it's 'Metal'. Whether or not it's your prerogative to occasionally indulge in largely derivative bands has no bearing on whether or not said derivative bands can legitimately have their 'Metalness' put in question.

I suppose in the same way bands like Dimmu Borgir can be considered Metal. Sure, they are Metal, I'm not here to argue semantics or anything, but that attitude to me doesn't lead to anything worthwhile, but of course that is subjective. Maybe their "metalness" cannot be put into question (since there is no real way of defining what makes one more or less "metal"), but I can sure as hell say that they are merely riding a "retro wave" made from the same stuff that carried the Retro Thrash movement which has all but pretty much disappeared in the past while.

I really don't think you can "sure as hell say that they are merely riding a 'retro wave'" by any degree. Olof, the main guy behind the band, is as legitimate as any, and bringing along his compatriots in Corrupt and Tribulation to fill out the lineup also put to rest any suspicions whatsoever that their intentions are less than genuine passion for the music. You later insinuate that they are somehow guilty by association for having had their newest album licensed out to Earache, but let's be honest, it's a poor argument. The Chasm released an album through an Earache subsidiary label, and anyone who questions them is absolutely mad.

And, to be honest, I don't hear anything particularly laudable about Lord Ryur that would spark enough interest in one of their songs to the point that you would record it, other than the fact that they're obscure and Canadian. They're certainly not particularly original, so I would have to assume that you don't entirely reject derivative bands.

Is this a joke? Lord Ryur are pretty original... The schizophrenic vocals, the blasting riffs, it sounds like a speed metal DEATH SS to my ears. But of course they were not as innovative from the majestic bands of Frostbitten Norway so perhaps I am speaking of line.

Just kidding mate, but I found that remark to be a bit of a shot below the belt line if anything. We're now at even score.

I don't think it's possible for something to be 'pretty' original. Sure, the vocalist has a bit of his own flair, but the songwriting is certainly a far cry from adventurous or unique in any way for 1986. As far as the reference to Norwegian black metal, of course they were original and innovative, but if I wasn't as passionate about heavy, power speed, and thrash metal, I wouldn't have even come across this board, so there's really no need to attempt to link me to black metal as if that somehow diminishes my claims.

And also to jump on Pestkrieg's point, I believe his intention in bringing up Funeral Circle was to draw comparison to Enforcer directly, since your original assertion was that Enforcer is lacking because they're derivative, but your influences are certainly visible on your sleeve as well. For many, including myself, this is not a problem, however, and I should mention that I do own your album and respect your work, as well as your opinions.

[FuneralCircle]

I would first just like to clarify that nothing I said was meant as a slight in any way, nor anything I'm about to say.

Of course it's 'Metal'. Whether or not it's your prerogative to occasionally indulge in largely derivative bands has no bearing on whether or not said derivative bands can legitimately have their 'Metalness' put in question.

I suppose in the same way bands like Dimmu Borgir can be considered Metal. Sure, they are Metal, I'm not here to argue semantics or anything, but that attitude to me doesn't lead to anything worthwhile, but of course that is subjective. Maybe their "metalness" cannot be put into question (since there is no real way of defining what makes one more or less "metal"), but I can sure as hell say that they are merely riding a "retro wave" made from the same stuff that carried the Retro Thrash movement which has all but pretty much disappeared in the past while.

I really don't think you can "sure as hell say that they are merely riding a 'retro wave'" by any degree. Olof, the main guy behind the band, is as legitimate as any, and bringing along his compatriots in Corrupt and Tribulation to fill out the lineup also put to rest any suspicions whatsoever that their intentions are less than genuine passion for the music. You later insinuate that they are somehow guilty by association for having had their newest album licensed out to Earache, but let's be honest, it's a poor argument. The Chasm released an album through an Earache subsidiary label, and anyone who questions them is absolutely mad.

And, to be honest, I don't hear anything particularly laudable about Lord Ryur that would spark enough interest in one of their songs to the point that you would record it, other than the fact that they're obscure and Canadian. They're certainly not particularly original, so I would have to assume that you don't entirely reject derivative bands.

Is this a joke? Lord Ryur are pretty original... The schizophrenic vocals, the blasting riffs, it sounds like a speed metal DEATH SS to my ears. But of course they were not as innovative from the majestic bands of Frostbitten Norway so perhaps I am speaking of line.

Just kidding mate, but I found that remark to be a bit of a shot below the belt line if anything. We're now at even score.

I don't think it's possible for something to be 'pretty' original. Sure, the vocalist has a bit of his own flair, but the songwriting is certainly a far cry from adventurous or unique in any way for 1986. As far as the reference to Norwegian black metal, of course they were original and innovative, but if I wasn't as passionate about heavy, power speed, and thrash metal, I wouldn't have even come across this board, so there's really no need to attempt to link me to black metal as if that somehow diminishes my claims.

And also to jump on Pestkrieg's point, I believe his intention in bringing up Funeral Circle was to draw comparison to Enforcer directly, since your original assertion was that Enforcer is lacking because they're derivative, but your influences are certainly visible on your sleeve as well. For many, including myself, this is not a problem, however, and I should mention that I do own your album and respect your work, as well as your opinions.

At the risk of stepping on more toes than I already have, I would say I don't find THE CHASM as great as most people, although they certainly are good. The latest album was quite lacking though, but I don't own it, heard it at a mates, didn't know it was licensed by Earache.

The Black Metal remark was being cheeky. Hell, I like a good dose of Varathron, Mortuary Drape, and Argentum if that counts for anything! I just felt my own band being referenced was a bit unfair.

I don't think it was a fair comparison, and I saw it more as a strawman argument. If someone wants to compare Funeral Circle to any other one band and say we sound exactly the same, that's fine - To me, I think Enforcer sound pretty much the same and I don't find anything special about them. The issue isn't calling bands posers because they, as you say, wear their influences on their sleeves, but rather because of their sound and attitude. All I've seen are bands thinking they're the new saviors of Heavy Metal or something. If someone wants to draw a comparison between that and Funeral Circle thinking we're "saving" Doom Metal, they are more than welcome!

I don't want to make it seem like I'm against anyone on this board, I'm all for a good discussion, and I'll admit my first post was formulated after a few beers and having to hear a mate piss and moan about these "new great acts!" when I think they'd be standard and generic even back in the early 80s.

As for Lord Ryur, I still think they sound rather strange still. They are not say, Paul Chain weird, but the entire delivery of the vocals and the music strikes me as unique, but still blatantly Heavy Metal. These bands I'm discussing are just very blatantly Heavy Metal, and I guess that just won't cut it for me. It did when I was younger (and I'm not calling anyone else childish here) and I thought Goat Horn was really daring stuff!

[FuneralCircle]

The new heroes, indeed...

[ION BRITTON]

...and some of the old heroes



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[jackieslaughter]

HEY.
HEY.
HEY.

.........Im watching you guys.
hahahahha

someone told me about some heavy metal bashing here! So took it apon myself to defend the honor of heavy metal.
so here it is.

Heavy Metal is Heavy Metal. Quit Bitching
Noone is ripping off the olden days. All these bands are just playing music. If it sounds like the olden days. then so be it! but when you sit at home listening to exciter and black knight (if you dont know these guys they are canadian and wickkeeddddddddd) over and over. thats just what comes out!!!

its balony like this that keeps heavy metal at war with itself! fight the men in suits and homeboy gear. not the dudes in leather!!!

in the words of UDO.

SONNN OF AA BITCHHHH!!

sincerly
dude from skull fist!

[Dodens Grav]

Funeral Circle:

I'm going to be honest and make clear that I'm really not even familiar with some of the bands you mentioned (Skull Fist I'd never heard of; White Wizzard I'd only heard "High Speed GTO" or whatever it's called (stupid song), and in fact I haven't heard a single second of the new Enforcer album. I do have a vast fondness for their first 7" though, and I've heard smatterings of their first full-length that sounded fine and genuine to these ears. In other words, I don't doubt that there are bands, most of them tied to the Heavy Metal Killers compilation that Earache put out that screams of inauthenticity and is an obvious marketing movement on, I stress, the label's part primarily, that have somewhat 'dubious' motives, whatever they may be, and in fact none of the bands, including the ones I have a fondness for, are in fact doing anything original and are in no way advancing the heavy metal sound. I would still argue, on the other hand, that so-called 'copycat' acts do have their role, nonetheless, and are to some degree or another important to the overall 'scene.' The ones that are genuine, that is.

On another note, I'm listening to Skull Fist on myspace and I don't hear anything particularly damning or inauthentic, though it's not overwhelmingly interesting either. White Wizzard is, in fact, piss, however.

[FuneralCircle]

Funeral Circle:

I'm going to be honest and make clear that I'm really not even familiar with some of the bands you mentioned (Skull Fist I'd never heard of; White Wizzard I'd only heard "High Speed GTO" or whatever it's called (stupid song), and in fact I haven't heard a single second of the new Enforcer album. I do have a vast fondness for their first 7" though, and I've heard smatterings of their first full-length that sounded fine and genuine to these ears. In other words, I don't doubt that there are bands, most of them tied to the Heavy Metal Killers compilation that Earache put out that screams of inauthenticity and is an obvious marketing movement on, I stress, the label's part primarily, that have somewhat 'dubious' motives, whatever they may be, and in fact none of the bands, including the ones I have a fondness for, are in fact doing anything original and are in no way advancing the heavy metal sound. I would still argue, on the other hand, that so-called 'copycat' acts do have their role, nonetheless, and are to some degree or another important to the overall 'scene.' The ones that are genuine, that is.

On another note, I'm listening to Skull Fist on myspace and I don't hear anything particularly damning or inauthentic, though it's not overwhelmingly interesting either. White Wizzard is, in fact, piss, however.

Alright, I can agree on some points, but I still firmly disagree on others. I can agree that copy-cat bands are usually the impetus in metal, in a way for more creative individuals to get pissed off and created more worthwhile tunes, not that I'm saying that I am one of those individuals.

[Oliver/KIT]

I have to say this bashing is somehow ridiculous. Does anyone really think that any of these bands can make a living out of playing classic heavy metal? Certainly not. So what shall the motivation than be? The love for metal? I am sure it is for most of them. And that makes them not different to your motivation Matthew. I know Olof snce the very early days of Enforcer and he is one of the most metal crazy maniacs I met in the last 10 or so years. why is is important to point the finger on other bands anyways? Additionally I do not care on which label a band is releasing their stuff, I only care if I like the music or not. If I would have rejected to buy any cds from major labels I would never be able to have Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Accept and so on. Nowadays in the underground scene it seems more important to have a hard to get cult release than a great record available everywhere. And a last note to finish: It was not the bands decision that "Diamonds" is distributed via Earache. Heavy Artillery worked that out and to be honest, I think that move was not the worst that could happen to them. They got reviews in all magazines over here, interviews everwhere. So what is bad with that? I do not know, I am happy for Olof.

[The_Elite]

I think Funeral Circle has been involved with Rich Walker for too long already!- next he'll be telling us Asomvel and Isen Torr are good!

I'd much rather some of these new bands got huge- I didn't realise the idea was to keep all things heavy metal within a tiny rapidly aging circle. I thought the idea of a band was to play shows and get fans? Or have I missed something???

Enforcer are on the cover of Terrorizer because firstly they are a great heavy metal band, and secondly because the editor is a massive fan of theirs and therefore can do something to help the band out.

[Pestkrieg]

I think that the labels and press are manipulating the 'new heroes of HM' thing more than the bands. I think that any band would be foolish not to take advantage of the publicity that comes their way, at least when they're a band whose music isn't rooted in obscurity aesthetically.

Who would you say Enforcer sound 'pretty much the same' as? Because I'd say that they just have influences from a number of acts - Maiden, Helloween, Virtue, old Swedish stuff, etc.

I think the idea that you can 'hear' authenticity in music is ridiculous anyway, whatever authenticity means. In many ways Venom certainly weren't totally 'authentic' about what they sung about, and they employed theatricality, but it sounds dark and hellish.

[MassOfKthulu]

'Enforcer are on the cover of Terrorizer because firstly they are a great heavy metal band'
The Encyclopedia Britannica should chance its etymology on 'gullibility.'

[FuneralCircle]

I think Funeral Circle has been involved with Rich Walker for too long already!- next he'll be telling us Asomvel and Isen Torr are good!

I'd much rather some of these new bands got huge- I didn't realise the idea was to keep all things heavy metal within a tiny rapidly aging circle. I thought the idea of a band was to play shows and get fans? Or have I missed something???

Is your new job putting words in my mouth or something? What does Rich Walker have to do with any of this, are the other guys in this thread who dislike these bands also his pupils or students or something?

'Enforcer are on the cover of Terrorizer because firstly they are a great heavy metal band'
The Encyclopedia Britannica should chance its etymology on 'gullibility.'