HELL
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BlackStele
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:05 pm
- Location: GREECE
Dave's Spirit will haunt em forever...
No hope for the future...no hope for the future because I can only see PAIN
The past, I hardly recognize, everything has changed
My aching heart is wheeping, I no longer care
Sinking ever deeper ...and deeper...IN DEPTHS OF DESPAIR.....
No hope for the future...no hope for the future because I can only see PAIN
The past, I hardly recognize, everything has changed
My aching heart is wheeping, I no longer care
Sinking ever deeper ...and deeper...IN DEPTHS OF DESPAIR.....
Black signs on my monitor, great bitching and fake words, Avenger is here, the craziest "modest" of all modsss...FTOU!!
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The Sentinel
- Posts: 3527
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:32 pm
- Location: Netherlands
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Witchfynde
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:11 pm
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HumanRemains
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:29 pm
- Location: Derbyshire, UK
Re: HELL
I don't normally get involved in forum debates, but in this case I'll make an exception - this is Kev Bower, guitarist and synthesizer player from HELL.Keir wrote:Does anyone know what is happening with Miskatonic's Hell compilation? I've been anticipating it for a year now, and I'm sure others have been waiting much longer.
I've read through the whole thread and I thought it appropriate to respond to some of the comments raised - everyone has an opinion to which they are inalienably entitled - vive la difference, as they say in France. So here are the facts, straight from source;
1 The Miskatonic box set is on hold, specifically because Andy Sneap took it upon himself to forego making hundreds of thousands of dollars producing big-name metal acts to spend his time and his energy producing an album for the band he worshipped when he was a kid. Dave Halliday taught Andy to play guitar, he was on the from row of every show the band ever played, and being in the position that he's now in, Andy thought that the best way to repay the inspiration he received back then, was to use his skills, position and influence to bring this music to a wider audience. Fuckin' top man I say - and amen to someone who believes in putting back rather than just taking out. Massive respect is also due to Rich Walker of Miskatonic, who has supported this project totally, and 100% understands why we all needed to do it. The full story of the recording, the track listings and other stuff can all be found within blogs on my MySpace page - www.myspace.com/bowersdad
2 I'm genuinely sorry that there are those who would prefer to listen to the original material, recorded in garage rehearsals on a mono cassette deck. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd ask you at least to give the new album a listen before making your judgement. Listen to it first, and if you think it's shit - that's cool. I totally appreciate where you're coming from regarding the originality of the demos and so on - but if you were in my shoes, out of the business for 25 years, and a Grammy-award-winning producer came along and offered to help you create something breathtaking for free - what would you have done? Told him to go fuck himself? The material we've recorded is breathtakingly good, and more to the point - still doesn't sound like anything else - including Nevermore (although if I could play half as well as Jeff Loomis I'd be a very happy man). The yardstick isn't me, or Andy, or our biased friends - the 'wow' comments have come from dozens of kids in the 18-25-year-old metal-buying bracket who also can't wait for this thing to be concluded because they think it's so good.
3 Vocals. Andy has lifted as much of Dave's voice as possible and he appears here and there. We've recorded a whole album's worth of songs using Martin Walkyier on lead vocals, and although he's done a brilliant job, there are question marks over his commitment because there will be a second album when this one finally sees the light of day. We're currently working with someone else who is closer to Dave in sound and feel, rather than being just a vocal brawler. We'll decide which one is appropriate and use it accordingly. Dani Filth's involvement is an over-exaggerated (on here) red herrring - his sole contribution to this has been to narrate a voice-over part at the beginning of one song (which he's done incredibly well), and to lend his support which again will widen the potential audience for this. I'm sorry that there are those out there who have a problem with Dani, but I have to say that he's one of the most ordinary, kindest, down-to-earth guys I ever met, and he's been very generous with his time and his support. I liked him enormously.
4 I'm also sorry that the fact that Andy produces high-quality, crystal-clear recordings bothers some people - again, it's your opinion. I have enormous respect and admiration for his talents as a producer, and I'd rather listen to his productions than something which sounds like a garage rehearsal. To illustrate his commitment once again - he turned down the mix of Trivium's 3rd album because he was busy recording HELL guitar parts with me. Can you imagine the money he could have made from that?
5 The above point more than adequately illustrates the fact that there's no 'sellout' (whatever you take that to mean). It's a few guys having some fun, for Chrissakes. It's a hobby project which we've put together in our spare time, to create something which we thought was worthwhile and which will hopefully raise a few eyebrows along the way. None of us gives a shit if we don't make dime from it - the point is that we've DONE it, and we'll have something to look back on and be proud of.
6 I have a feeling that many of those who have posted on this forum, will be eating their words when they get to hear it.
Best wishes to all,
Kev
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Stormspell
- Posts: 2332
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:59 am
- Location: Stormspell Records
- Contact:
Re: HELL
Hey Kev,
I see where you are coming from and I'm not going to argue with you. I would just like to ask you to consider releasing a limited pressing which will also include the original HELL recordings, so die-hard fans like me and the rest of the guys here can fulfill our own dream of having the original tunes.
My two cents on this topic.
I see where you are coming from and I'm not going to argue with you. I would just like to ask you to consider releasing a limited pressing which will also include the original HELL recordings, so die-hard fans like me and the rest of the guys here can fulfill our own dream of having the original tunes.
My two cents on this topic.
Webstore: http://stormspell.bigcartel.com
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The_Real_Mordred
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:10 pm
Hi Kev!
First off, I must say I appreciated very much your attitude of coming "public" and debate your points of view! Respect for that!
I won't talk for others who have commented on this thread, but I'll tell you my point of view, which I think I put on another message board (Rich Walker's Miskatonic, I think).
First off, I must say that you can and SHOULD do whatever you see fit with your creations. HELL was a big part of you, so you're entitled to do whatever you think it's best for both the name of the band and yourself!
Second, I do believe that Andy Sneap isn't doing this to earn a massive amount of money. I've been following the scene for quite some time, and I do remember SABBAT citing HELL as their major influence back then. I know I did whatever I could (no matter how limited it was) when a couple of local bands came back a few years ago, so I know what kind of sense of justice he must be feeling to help you out.
But...
And here is where I don't agree with both of you...
I don't think that appealing to "dozens of kids in the 18-25-year-old metal-buying bracket" is where you'll be doing HELL's legacy "justice" (and I put this in between comas, because it's my personal interpretation of justice!)
The majority of these kids follow whatever is "hip" at a certain moment. They have no idea who the hell HELL were (pardon the intentional pun hehehe) and are mostly being drawn into this by the names involved in this project: namely, Sneap, Walkyier, Dani Filth, and, of course, the great "shock value" and (now they know!) "appeal" that a name like HELL brings!
Even the fact that Sneap turned down a Trivium recording, contributes to the hype and a few more kids will be buying this!
But the thing is: most of these kids in 5 years time, will be getting their jobs, marry, etc, and will leave their "teen days" behind not giving a shit about their Metal past. They are part of a generation of (for lack of a better term) hipsters, who joined this to be a part of some rebellious movement. In the 80's there were loads more! And they don't do the proper "justice" (again the comas) to the real gems they encounter! I've lost count of old friends of mine who used to be metalheads in the 80's who know say: "you're still into THAT? I've outgrown that phase a loooong time ago".
And this is where things go wrong: you (by "you" I mean the people involved in the project, not you personally) are trying to appeal to them!
And in the meantime, loads of people who have been listening to your stuff and acknowledging your BIG FUCKING TALENT for a long long time are put "on hold", waiting for that massive box set they are salivating for!
I mean, we may even enjoy your new album, but we can't help but feeling that the album should have come AFTER you made justice to your past and your long time fans!
To end this rambling, I still want to make this clear: the above are my opinions. I'm not "crucifying" you or whatever. As I said, it's your "child" and only you know how to "raise" it! I just hope my rambling made some sense to you!
If you want to discuss this further privately, you can mail me: mordred AT netcabo.pt (put a "@" instead of "AT") or send me a PM
Cheers
Nuno (Portugal)
First off, I must say I appreciated very much your attitude of coming "public" and debate your points of view! Respect for that!
I won't talk for others who have commented on this thread, but I'll tell you my point of view, which I think I put on another message board (Rich Walker's Miskatonic, I think).
First off, I must say that you can and SHOULD do whatever you see fit with your creations. HELL was a big part of you, so you're entitled to do whatever you think it's best for both the name of the band and yourself!
Second, I do believe that Andy Sneap isn't doing this to earn a massive amount of money. I've been following the scene for quite some time, and I do remember SABBAT citing HELL as their major influence back then. I know I did whatever I could (no matter how limited it was) when a couple of local bands came back a few years ago, so I know what kind of sense of justice he must be feeling to help you out.
But...
And here is where I don't agree with both of you...
I don't think that appealing to "dozens of kids in the 18-25-year-old metal-buying bracket" is where you'll be doing HELL's legacy "justice" (and I put this in between comas, because it's my personal interpretation of justice!)
The majority of these kids follow whatever is "hip" at a certain moment. They have no idea who the hell HELL were (pardon the intentional pun hehehe) and are mostly being drawn into this by the names involved in this project: namely, Sneap, Walkyier, Dani Filth, and, of course, the great "shock value" and (now they know!) "appeal" that a name like HELL brings!
Even the fact that Sneap turned down a Trivium recording, contributes to the hype and a few more kids will be buying this!
But the thing is: most of these kids in 5 years time, will be getting their jobs, marry, etc, and will leave their "teen days" behind not giving a shit about their Metal past. They are part of a generation of (for lack of a better term) hipsters, who joined this to be a part of some rebellious movement. In the 80's there were loads more! And they don't do the proper "justice" (again the comas) to the real gems they encounter! I've lost count of old friends of mine who used to be metalheads in the 80's who know say: "you're still into THAT? I've outgrown that phase a loooong time ago".
And this is where things go wrong: you (by "you" I mean the people involved in the project, not you personally) are trying to appeal to them!
And in the meantime, loads of people who have been listening to your stuff and acknowledging your BIG FUCKING TALENT for a long long time are put "on hold", waiting for that massive box set they are salivating for!
I mean, we may even enjoy your new album, but we can't help but feeling that the album should have come AFTER you made justice to your past and your long time fans!
To end this rambling, I still want to make this clear: the above are my opinions. I'm not "crucifying" you or whatever. As I said, it's your "child" and only you know how to "raise" it! I just hope my rambling made some sense to you!
If you want to discuss this further privately, you can mail me: mordred AT netcabo.pt (put a "@" instead of "AT") or send me a PM
Cheers
Nuno (Portugal)
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Shadow Kingdom
- Posts: 852
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:51 am
Re: HELL
I agree. Release BOTH. It will satisfy everyone's wants....stormspell wrote:Hey Kev,
I see where you are coming from and I'm not going to argue with you. I would just like to ask you to consider releasing a limited pressing which will also include the original HELL recordings, so die-hard fans like me and the rest of the guys here can fulfill our own dream of having the original tunes.
My two cents on this topic.
You just can't re-create the "magic" of garage records/basement tape/etc regardless of how bad they might be.
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great_knuthulhu
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:51 pm
- Location: Norway
I'll certainly give the new recordings a fair chance and try to forget about wanting the box set.
Well, Kev, here's my opinion:
Let me tell you what I feel about the music industry.
I can't help but much enjoy the whole "piracy"/peer-to-peer sharing because the people who are most against it are the people who have been dictating the rules of making money from music for ages. The large labels always got the biggest share by far and now they're in a tight spot. Fine by me. I support small dedicated underground labels, I buy a lot of vinyl and CDs. But the bigger labels would have you believe that music is only viable if someone makes money from it. I totally reject that notion and believe that art is worth for its own sake. A lot of people play music without getting a cent from it, often on the contrary. And there will always be music, and there'll always be bands.
Trivium are a great example of what's wrong with the music industry. A contrived, fake band that jumps on whatever trend their label points them to and wear the "politically correct" t-shirts and adapt their posture and discourse. Dani and the whole Cradle of Filth enterprise is another travesty - an exercise in money-making that has long forfeited any resemblance of integrity and embraced the circus of commercialism.
Most 18-25 year old kids don't buy CDs. The vast majority just downloads their music, and listens to it once or twice and that's it. Whereas Hell has an underground following of dedicated fans that think the band's legacy is grandiose beyond words. They are the people who have been talking about Hell for years and will continue to do so in years to come. And they are the ones who feel disgusted and alienated by the current events. Not a mild choice of words, but that's the way it goes, as you can realise by reading forums like this one.
I'm ok with Walkyier's inclusion, I even feel it makes sense, considering the irreplaceable Halliday is gone. But Filth? ... Do you want to have kids buy the album to enjoy it for Hell's sake or because there's a sticker on it with Dani's name in large letters (as there will be)? Of course you are not going to trash his vocal parts now. Whatever. I understand how this all happened, and I won't hold it against you, mainly, and I stress this, if you do the right thing under the circumstances and release the Miskatonic box as it was originally planned all the same.
Let me tell you what I feel about the music industry.
I can't help but much enjoy the whole "piracy"/peer-to-peer sharing because the people who are most against it are the people who have been dictating the rules of making money from music for ages. The large labels always got the biggest share by far and now they're in a tight spot. Fine by me. I support small dedicated underground labels, I buy a lot of vinyl and CDs. But the bigger labels would have you believe that music is only viable if someone makes money from it. I totally reject that notion and believe that art is worth for its own sake. A lot of people play music without getting a cent from it, often on the contrary. And there will always be music, and there'll always be bands.
Trivium are a great example of what's wrong with the music industry. A contrived, fake band that jumps on whatever trend their label points them to and wear the "politically correct" t-shirts and adapt their posture and discourse. Dani and the whole Cradle of Filth enterprise is another travesty - an exercise in money-making that has long forfeited any resemblance of integrity and embraced the circus of commercialism.
Most 18-25 year old kids don't buy CDs. The vast majority just downloads their music, and listens to it once or twice and that's it. Whereas Hell has an underground following of dedicated fans that think the band's legacy is grandiose beyond words. They are the people who have been talking about Hell for years and will continue to do so in years to come. And they are the ones who feel disgusted and alienated by the current events. Not a mild choice of words, but that's the way it goes, as you can realise by reading forums like this one.
I'm ok with Walkyier's inclusion, I even feel it makes sense, considering the irreplaceable Halliday is gone. But Filth? ... Do you want to have kids buy the album to enjoy it for Hell's sake or because there's a sticker on it with Dani's name in large letters (as there will be)? Of course you are not going to trash his vocal parts now. Whatever. I understand how this all happened, and I won't hold it against you, mainly, and I stress this, if you do the right thing under the circumstances and release the Miskatonic box as it was originally planned all the same.
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HumanRemains
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:29 pm
- Location: Derbyshire, UK
Thanks to all who have responded so eloquently and positively. Just a coupla points in response;
1 The original material is - and was always going to be - a part of this project, so please stop worrying. Andy's used some top-notch digital editing and resurrection software to remaster the old tracks, remove all the noise from them, and generally make them listenable again. They will either be incorporated into the CD package in the form of a second bonus CD, or (more probably) be made available as free high-quality downloads when we get a website up and running to coincide with the release. There are no current plans to issue anything on vinyl - but the possibility is still there, and I for one would love that because the artwork's so good.
2 The album will NOT have a sticker on it saying 'featuring Dani Filth'!!!!! The Trivium turn-down will similarly go unmentioned - we're not interested in hype or anything remotely similar - this album will stand or fall on quality - and quality alone. One of the main reasons Andy's become so heavily involved in this project is that he, too, is sick of the whole laptop-generated fake metal brigade, and wanted to get back to the roots of something which came from the heart and soul, not the computer and chequebook. He's told me on more than one occasion that even after producing over 100 albums, he still gets a bigger buzz from this stuff than anything else.
3 Nuno - all points (and I mean all) taken and understood - I hear you loud and clear, and I'm sure you speak for many. The best way I can find to respond is for you to imagine this........in your 20's you have an amazing relationship with the girl of your dreams. She's beautiful beyond compare, and you're the happiest man alive. But - for reasons you can't control, it doesn't work out and you sadly have to move on and lose her. You still think about her every day, even though it's 25 years since you saw her, and you go to sleep every night wondering what would have happened if circumstances and fate had allowed you to be together. Then one day, suddenly, she walks back into your life by complete chance. Even though it's been a quarter-century, it's like a bomb going off in your head. The magic is still there, the chemistry, the feelings, just everything. Even though you both have a few grey hairs and a few wrinkles, inside you're both still the same people and it's like being born again. THAT, my friend, is what HELL 2009 is all about. The songs are the same, the emotion and commitment within them hasn't diminished - if anything, it's got stronger. Above all - you now have an opportunity to do it all again - but this time, you do it 100% right. The past is important, but it's never going to be as important as the present. Be a part of it, enjoy it, cherish it.
1 The original material is - and was always going to be - a part of this project, so please stop worrying. Andy's used some top-notch digital editing and resurrection software to remaster the old tracks, remove all the noise from them, and generally make them listenable again. They will either be incorporated into the CD package in the form of a second bonus CD, or (more probably) be made available as free high-quality downloads when we get a website up and running to coincide with the release. There are no current plans to issue anything on vinyl - but the possibility is still there, and I for one would love that because the artwork's so good.
2 The album will NOT have a sticker on it saying 'featuring Dani Filth'!!!!! The Trivium turn-down will similarly go unmentioned - we're not interested in hype or anything remotely similar - this album will stand or fall on quality - and quality alone. One of the main reasons Andy's become so heavily involved in this project is that he, too, is sick of the whole laptop-generated fake metal brigade, and wanted to get back to the roots of something which came from the heart and soul, not the computer and chequebook. He's told me on more than one occasion that even after producing over 100 albums, he still gets a bigger buzz from this stuff than anything else.
3 Nuno - all points (and I mean all) taken and understood - I hear you loud and clear, and I'm sure you speak for many. The best way I can find to respond is for you to imagine this........in your 20's you have an amazing relationship with the girl of your dreams. She's beautiful beyond compare, and you're the happiest man alive. But - for reasons you can't control, it doesn't work out and you sadly have to move on and lose her. You still think about her every day, even though it's 25 years since you saw her, and you go to sleep every night wondering what would have happened if circumstances and fate had allowed you to be together. Then one day, suddenly, she walks back into your life by complete chance. Even though it's been a quarter-century, it's like a bomb going off in your head. The magic is still there, the chemistry, the feelings, just everything. Even though you both have a few grey hairs and a few wrinkles, inside you're both still the same people and it's like being born again. THAT, my friend, is what HELL 2009 is all about. The songs are the same, the emotion and commitment within them hasn't diminished - if anything, it's got stronger. Above all - you now have an opportunity to do it all again - but this time, you do it 100% right. The past is important, but it's never going to be as important as the present. Be a part of it, enjoy it, cherish it.
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tearitup1234
- Posts: 189
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- Location: USA
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Dodens Grav
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Real music lovers care about the music above anything else and wouldn't turn their noses up to a band like Hell issuing their old material for free official mp3 downloads.Black Axe wrote:Real music lovers hate downloads, they just want to buy vinyl.HumanRemains wrote:They will either be incorporated into the CD package in the form of a second bonus CD, or (more probably) be made available as free high-quality downloads