Crows In Black wrote: So when people ask me what I listen to, Im just really specific and say "I listen to Japanese Thrash Metal"....then whoever is asking me usualy thinks "ok, i have no idea what the hell Japanese thrash metal is"
GREAT opinion!I think something similar happens to me.When people ask me what i like as for music i say to them 80's heavy metal.
When ''Crows In Black'' you mean 80's T'Shirts are sold everywhere in US what bands we're talking here?Metallica,G'N'R and maybe two more?I think metal was dead in USa since 15 years.
Crows In Black wrote: So when people ask me what I listen to, Im just really specific and say "I listen to Japanese Thrash Metal"....then whoever is asking me usualy thinks "ok, i have no idea what the hell Japanese thrash metal is"
GREAT opinion!I think something similar happens to me.When people ask me what i like as for music i say to them 80's heavy metal.
When ''Crows In Black'' you mean 80's T'Shirts are sold everywhere in US what bands we're talking here?Metallica,G'N'R and maybe two more?I think metal was dead in USa since 15 years.
yes, in walmart they have motley crue (with the pentegram taken out), ac/dc, g'n'r, metallica...more mainstream bands, but also there are "vintage" stores that sell stuff like exodus and vio-lence shirts for like 300 dollars
BRING BACK THE HEAVY in METAL I SAY!
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This is mission impossible, because everything I loved from 1979-1983 disappeared in the new record stores and was gone by 1984 because everyone but a copy who needed one...
Same when Metallica became my favorite band back in July 1983, alot of that early Megaforce stuff was gone from the record stores real fast.
Combat defunct in 1991. Music For Nations defunct in 2004.
Everything classic was gone from the record stores by 1991, except the huge big bands.
Golden age of Independent heavy metal for me is May 1979 -- July 1986
The golden age of death metal for me is 1983 Slayer Dec '83---1989.
When all the classics are gone from the stores by 1991 then the dudes are buying the 2-nd tier contender acts from the 3 division labels...and tried to make a go at it with there references.
1995 had the internet and the ebay, but most people just always try to make music for there own peer groups, and not try to become everyone favorite bands.
With less bands to buy...all this does is serve as a "reorder" method from the old fans in the first place. Because I do spend alot of time replacing tattered old cassettes, vinyl or CD's.
And to me, I would rather buy new copies of Acid- Maniac every year instead of trying to figure out if i "missed" something the first time around, when I probably hate the record in the first place.
Metal bands are not allowed to use old influences from the golden ages. Because that is copy-cat.
Metal bands are not allowed to mix new rock alternative with any kind of heavy metal. Because that helps out rock and roll and not heavy metal.
My main complaint with the newer heavy metal acts trad/power/thrash is that the original bands spent a few thousand hours rehearsing before putting out albums.
The top 500 albums of heavy metal happened along time ago. Now bands can only go for album of the week, or album of the month, and go for album of the year. And try for spots 501....etc...!
I go to the record store alot, about 3 times a week since 1981. Nowadays, classical, indie rock, classic rock, classical music and pop culture and avant garde metal and avant garde classical music fans, are always happy and excited to run to the record store, because they are smart enough to know that original bands are derivative (upper 1% of your collection) as much as the next guys. (upper 15% of your collection)
And continue to buy records based on logical building blocks, but in this genre if you use a obvious building block a band should use, they get accused of everything from musical plagiarism, being a poser, trying to catch a wave, or maybe they should get out of this genre outright.
All bands can do is practice 1ooo hours a year about 4 hours a day, and do a hundred gigs, then record a debut album. All a fan can do is find bands that are logical choices based on personal taste...that are based on there own knowledge, what works (sound good verses holy s*&!) ...with this wisdom, know what music should survive, and know what music should fall into the delete bin.
There is nothing to buy everyone cries...bullshit. I do in 2011 what I did in 1991 and 1983, read a bands bio, and if they name 3 bands I WORSHIP, then I buy there CD, For example Morbid Angel, Death & Repulsion (I NEVER EXPECTED bands to push the sonic envelope further than this in the first place)
The 1980's can never be replicated because 2 billion people have entered the world since heavy metal started. Cool 7 billion people on the planet and a genre with a 3 million people marketplace ( i do not expect bands to sell more than this).... And the genres big problem nowadays is STILL.. it is trying to figure out if HEAVY METAL IS A SUB-GENRE OF HARD ROCK....or its own GENRE all together.
If the genre has only 300,000 true fanatics and a billion casual ones...then the casual ones are just hold OUR back-up copies of the classic albums for us. Until they sellout, of the genre.
Christ you have some obsession with your statistics and stonewall boundaries, and utter nonsense.
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Alot of people hate me, because I know my facts, and dig in, I do not even care if I am wrong, because I know, to build a perfect home, one must build it according to ones vision. Being a metal fan for 30 years plus. I seen alot of world class bands, and been to tons of concerts. I have a good grasp of what I am looking for in heavy metal acts. Bands with heavy metal influences, a good understanding of the difference between hard rock and heavy metal, there are alot of fast rock albums.
In the old magazines, bands would always say they practiced songs 4 hours or 8 hours day. Play those songs a million times live. Then it was easy to record a album that would survive the test of time.
So knowing those facts, it is easy to hear some bands debut, 5th or 10th albums nowadays are just thrown together. Just pieces thrown together, with no understanding of songwriting. Which is even cooler, when "guitar" hero's. claim they cant read music.
If one wants to play music for a living why not study music at a university even if it is a 2 year degree from a community college.
Shit I miss the days when when could go into record store and get a copy of Satan's "Court in the Act", then do the same thing the following year then the year later, and then for a few years later. Then that was gone buy at least something like Cacophony "Speed Metal Symphony" was on the market then.
I do feel sorry for the poor bastard, who is a aspiring guitarist. Wanting to start a metal band, based what is in the record stores nowadays. The records stores today is not a paradise of perfect picking like it was for me in 80- 86.
If you were not alive as a metal fan back then, I do not expect you to agree or understand my point of view. Because your most mind-blown experiences should be different than mine. You know those albums, where getting floored, made you drop your beer bottle.
I don't think you know your facts, I think you're a bit delusional about having some sort of absolute knowledge on the subject.
Terms like "world class bands" are nonsense to me as well as going on about whole records that stand the test of time; I can love one single song on a crappy sounding demo and it's as magick as anything to me. The fact a band managed to produce but a few wonderful moments is interesting to me, not all this shit about how much someone should rehearse etc. (do you play music yourself?).
Yes lots of frankly amazing players can't read music, because that isn't required at all, when you make music you can be self-taught and have great understanding of dynamics and the ability to convey emotion, I don't know why anyone would ever argue the contrary. Prior to the 80's bands sometimes managed to simply pretty much improvise records in the studio... All your ranting really seems like you don't actually know much about actually playing music.
Hardly anyone makes a living off music, and now you're saying this should factor in when 'deciding' whether we like a band?
Through most of your posts it seems to me you ignore or are ignorant of a whole lot of bands because through various twists(like not being endorsed by certain magazines or not stating the correct influences) you choose to and instead keep buying copies of the same records and come up with a convoluted philosophy as to why you must be right.
I disagree with your definition of what constitutes rock or metal as well, just as the totally insane rant about why WASP could never produce real metal (yet you stay silent when presented with songs of theirs where only someone fanatically adamant about their own stance would ignore the potency). What about bands there is no info about, like the HUNDREDS of demo only, or single only bands that released things independently throughout the 80's? God forbid we'd have to judge them solely on their immediate musical merits instead of being lead to the light by magazines or questionable associations or utterances.
Your cutting things off at '86 is also total bullshit, with all the years into metal you should damn well know a bit more history than that.
Are you the tyrant, who cast them to the sea?
One day you'll be among the dead.
I don't think you know your facts, I think you're a bit delusional about having some sort of absolute knowledge on the subject.
MUSIC IS A SUBJECTIVE THING...SOME PEOPLE MAY GET EXCITED ABOUT HEARING A BLACK SABBATH, AND OTHER MAY THINK IT IS NOT GOOD. I HAVE PERFECT KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT MATTER, BECAUSE I AM A 80'S METAL SUPPORTER, SINCE 1980. I DID NOT START OFF WITH WILD AMOUNTS OF KNOWLEDGE. I STARTED WITH VAN HALEN IN 1978, HARDLY A HEAVY METAL ACT...BUT I DID FINALLY MAKE MY WAY TO BLACK SABBATH. AND STARTED WITH THE NWOBHM WITH TYGERS OF PAN TANG AND THE IRON MAIDEN DEBUT...BECAUSE THAT WHAT MY GIRLFRIEND WAS INTO IN THE SUMMER OF 1980...AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS AWESOME MUSIC...
I DO NOT HAVE TO READ ABOUT 80'S METAL BECAUSE I LIVED IT ALL. FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE....BUT THE DOWNSIDE OF THAT NOW IS I AM 44 YEARS OLD.
Terms like "world class bands" are nonsense to me as well as going on about whole records that stand the test of time; I can love one single song on a crappy sounding demo and it's as magick as anything to me. The fact a band managed to produce but a few wonderful moments is interesting to me, not all this shit about how much someone should rehearse etc. (do you play music yourself?).
NO I DO NOT PLAY MUSIC MYSELF...I GOT A JOB OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, WORKING AT A HEAVY METAL CONCERT THEATER....AND I GOT TO SEE TONS OF CONCERTS FROM 1986--1998....THEN I STARTED A CAREER AS A CHAINSAW OPERATOR.
I TALKED TO ALOT OF THOSE BANDS AND HOW MUCH THEY MADE, AND I GOT PAYED MORE THAN THEM. JUST BEING A SECURITY GUARD OR A BARTENDER OR A STAGE MANAGER...PLUS I ALWAYS WORKED A DAY JOB...AND ALWAYS HAD A STACK OFF CASH THAT MADE THE DRUG DEALERS BLUSH...THERE IS MORE THAN ONE WAY TO MAKE MONEY AND HAVE CASH. I THINK IT IS FUNNY WHEN I READ IN INTERVIEWS BANDS SAYING THEY HAD TO BUY THERE OWN ALBUM, WHEN I CAN BUY ALL THE ALBUMS I WANT. I NEVER ACQUIRED TONS OF DEBT. I ALWAYS THOUGHT IF I BUY THE ALBUMS I WANT THE DAY THEY ARE RELEASED, I CAN AVOID THE SECOND HAND MARKET, AND GET PRICE SCALPED. I DO NOT CARE PEOPLE HAVE TO LOSS LOST OF MONEY BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO GET A LEGENDARY ALBUM, THE WEEK IT IS RELEASED.
ALL WORLD CLASS MEANS IS THAT BANDS COME FROM ALL-OVER THE WORLD. AND THE BEST OF THE BEST ARE IN A LEAGUE OF THERE OWN. THE UPPER 1%... LIKE A BELL CURVE THE BIGGEST PERCENTAGE BANDS ARE IN THE CONTENDER OR AVERAGE OR BELOW AVERAGE CATEGORY....
AND 90% OF THE BANDS DO NOT HAVE CLASSIC ALBUMS LIKE IT IS STATED OVER AT METAL ARCHIVES. IF THAT WERE TRUE YOU COULD JUST BY ALBUMS BLINDED FOLDED AT A RECORD STORE.
THE THEME OF THIS WEBSITE SEEMS TO BE....OH THE 1980'S SPIRIT OF METAL IS GONE...IT IS NOT ME WHO IS IGNORANT OF THAT TIME PERIOD. IT IS BANDS TAKING A STAB AT THE STYLE WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT WE LOVE ABOUT CERTAIN ALBUMS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Yes lots of frankly amazing players can't read music, because that isn't required at all, when you make music you can be self-taught and have great understanding of dynamics and the ability to convey emotion, I don't know why anyone would ever argue the contrary.
YES BUT ON THE OTHER HAND. IF ONE WANTS TO PLAY MUSIC, WHY NOT STUDY MUSIC THEORY, AT A COMMUNITY COLLEGE. THIS KIND OF THINKING WHY TODAY'S MUSIC SUCKS CAN NOT BE THAT OUTRAGEOUS.
Prior to the 80's bands sometimes managed to simply pretty much improvise records in the studio... All your ranting really seems like you don't actually know much about actually playing music.
I DON'T PLAY MUSIC...I MAKE MY LIVING CUTTING DOWN TREES. BUT I AM ALLOWED TO HAVE A OPINION. BUT I LISTEN TO MUSIC ALOT MY WHOLE LIFE, BECAUSE MY PARENTS. ONLY GAVE ME 2 HOURS OF TV. EVERY DAY. DURING MY HIGH SCHOOL DAYS.
SO I LISTEN TO MUSIC NO STOP. AND I HAD TONS OF MONEY TO PURCHASE EVERY ALBUM I EVERY WANTED. SO I KNOW WHY A ALBUM IS A CLASSIC. BUT I REMEMBER THE DAYS WHEN BANDS WANTED TO HAVE A ORIGINAL SOUND.
Hardly anyone makes a living off music, and now you're saying this should factor in when 'deciding' whether we like a band?
YOU CAN LIKE WHATEVER YOU WANT...IN THE END...PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY WANT ANYWAYS...AND HEAVY METAL WEBSITES...ARE DONE FOR FUN...I KNOW WHAT I KNOW, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN AWARE OF TRENDS IN MUSIC. THE ORIGINAL COMES, SOME BANDS TRY TO CATCH A WAVE OF THE ORIGINATOR, THEN THERE ARE CLONES OF THE RIP-OFFS, AND KNOCK-OFFS OF RIP-OFFS. SO I KNOW WHEN THERE IS A ORIGINAL BAND, EVERY LABEL WANTS 'THERE OWN' VERSION OF THAT ORIGINATING ARTIST.
Through most of your posts it seems to me you ignore or are ignorant of a whole lot of bands because through various twists(like not being endorsed by certain magazines or not stating the correct influences) you choose to and instead keep buying copies of the same records and come up with a convoluted philosophy as to why you must be right.
DUDE I THINK WHAT I THINK....IN LIFE THERE IS NO REAL RIGHT OR REAL WRONG. OR PROPER WAY OF LIVING LIFE. I ALWAYS WENT OFF THE IDEA THERE ARE NO RULES. I ONLY DOES WHAT WORKS FOR ME. I ONLY WENT BACK TO BUY MULTIPLE COPIES OF MY FAVORITE ALBUMS, BECAUSE I WENT TO CD-R'S, WHICH WAS A HUGE MISTAKE.
BACK IN THE OLD DAYS, I ALWAYS HAD TO REPLACE CASSETTES. LIKE THE IRON MAIDEN'S ONES FROM CAPITOL RECORDS...THE WRITING ALWAYS WORE-OFF REAL FAST..AND IF THERE WAS A COOL ALBUM I LIKED I BOUGHT A SECOND COPY, WHICH IS EASIER THAN TRYING TO FIND A TITLE AFTER IT IS DONE BEING MANUFACTURED AND THE STORES STOPPED CARING OUT THAT BAND.
I disagree with your definition of what constitutes rock or metal as well, just as the totally insane rant about why WASP could never produce real metal (yet you stay silent when presented with songs of theirs where only someone fanatically adamant about their own stance would ignore the potency).
NOT EVERYONE HAS TO AGREE WITH EVERYONE...I JUST BASE WHAT I CONSIDER A HEAVY METAL SOUND BASED ON THE FIRST FIVE BLACK SABBATH ALBUMS, AND OTHERS WHO OBVIOUS CONTRIBUTED TO HEAVY METAL. I DON'T HAVE ANY WASP ALBUMS OR CD'S BECAUSE I NEVER BOUGHT THEM.
BECAUSE WHEN THEY WERE ON MTV BACK IN AUGUST 1984 ( I REMEMBER THIS DATE BECAUSE I JUST ENTERED THE 11TH GRADE...AND THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST ANOTHER MTV BAND. WITH A COOL SONG...BUT NOTHING WORTH CHECKING OUT....I NEVER DOWN LOADED AKA STEALING ANY OFF THERE SONGS, BECAUSE I CAN REMEMBER DISTINCTLY THAT THEY WERE NOT METALLIC ENOUGH FOR MY PERSONAL TASTE AT THAT TIME IN HISTORY, CIRCA 1984...WHEN 25 YEARS LATER I LISTEN TO HEAVIER METAL NOWADAYS, THAN I DID WHEN NWOBHM AND POWER METAL WAS ALL THE RAGE,
SO YEAH JUST ME IF I WROTE A BOOK ON HEAVY METAL....I WOULD NOT INCLUDE THE LA FREAK SHOW SCENE...THAT HAD SUCH WIMPY STUFF AS STEELER, RATT, MOTLEY CRUE, WASP, BLACK N' BLUE, WHITE SISTER, POISON. THAT IS ME THOUGH. YOU BOOK MAYBE DIFFERENT.
What about bands there is no info about, like the HUNDREDS of demo only, or single only bands that released things independently throughout the 80's? God forbid we'd have to judge them solely on their immediate musical merits instead of being lead to the light by magazines or questionable associations or utterances.
DUDE I READ FANZINES LIKE YOU DID IN THE 1980'S...BUT ALSO I HAD CONTACTS FROM PEOPLE ALL OVER AMERICA AND CANADA...SO I KNOW ABOUT THIS AND THAT BAND JUST LIKE YOU. AND WATER SEEKS ITS OWN LEVEL. I FIND IT NO SIN THAT I MOSTLY LOOKED FOR THE COMBAT, MEGAFORCE, METAL BLADE, MUSIC FOR NATIONS, SHRAPNEL LOGO ON RECORDS BACK THEN. BECAUSE THEY WERE METAL LABELS WITH THE OCCASIONAL ROCK AND ROLL BAND ON ITS ROSTER. I kind of figured if a group was in that league, there album would get pulled up a level.
MYSELF I THINK 3 OUT OF 4 ALBUMS ARE GOOD TO COLLECT. BUT I AM ALWAYS LOOKING FOR STUFF. I CAN ENJOY FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES.
Your cutting things off at '86 is also total bullshit, with all the years into metal you should damn well know a bit more history than that.
I LISTEN TO METAL SUB-GENRES FROM ALL SUB-GENRES....BUT EVERYONE IN THERE LIFE HAD A CERTAIN ERA, WHERE THE METAL SEEMS MORE MAGICAL. I JUST ENJOY THE YEARS OF MY YOUTH 1979- TO 1986 (SIXTH GRADE TO 12TH GRADE) AS THE BEST, FOR THE 1980'S HEAVY METAL. I HAVE THE TOP TO ALBUMS FOR EVERY YEAR, IN EVERY SUB GENRE.
Yeah why talk about a band like Cage .... I am sure everyone would rather talk about Jag Panzer and Savatage, because they floored us HEAVIER to our psyche back in 1984 Jag Panzer " Ample Destruction" and 1983 with Savatage "Sirens"
I WAS ASKED TO JOIN THIS PLACE, BECAUSE IT HAD A SIMILAR VIBE TO SNAKEPIT HEAVY METAL MAGAZINE. BUT YEAH....I WILL SUPPORT THIS PLACE. IT IS A VALUABLE RESOURCE TO ME...
SINCE MY IMPUT SEEMS TO PISS PEOPLE OFF MORE THAN IT HELPS...I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AROUND FOR OTHER FORUMS TO JOIN.
MORE IN LINE WITH WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS VALUED...SUPPORTING THE BEST OF THE BEST AND F*&@ THE REST....
But yeah i am not always here just to preach to the choir, about heavy metal. I read alot here to and think about what people have to say. And I wanted to say fuck yeah I add a couple of things to my collection reading this place. Like the Deep Switch "NINE INCHES OF GOD" CD...and interested in that Crimson Lords of the alliance LP on Grudge records.
for whatever you have to refer to, even this forum has functional buttons called "quote". usage of those increases the joy of reading for everybody else immensely
Down there in the Darkness
Centuries of Evil
And his Arms will take you deeper and deeper
for whatever you have to refer to, even this forum has functional buttons called "quote". usage of those increases the joy of reading for everybody else immensely
Sorry about this. I had to re-post my original posting because the original one has tons of errors spelling and sentence structure. So my second post is posted, around the same time you posted yours. So it is just a bad coincidence, i made the same mistake twice, but second time was not on purpose.
@DeathMetalWeenie: Some comments on your posts from the moderator's point of view
1) Please learn how to use the 'quote' function. It's difficult to understand to who you're referring and whether these are your own words or someone else's.
2) Writing in CAPITAL LETTERS means you're shouting. Please use them only when necessary, not when retorting in whole paragraphs.
3) Please post what you want to post only ONCE. I am often deleting your double-triple posts. If it takes a few seconds to receive a message that your post has been posted doesn't mean that it hasn't been posted at all. Same thing if you receive an 'debug' message, most probably your post has been successfuly posted in this case too.
Good against Evil, Evil sure to win
"It really didn't matter if they liked it or not, i was going to give it to them straight down their throats" -John Stewart
DeathMetalWeenie wrote:In the old magazines, bands would always say they practiced songs 4 hours or 8 hours day. Play those songs a million times live. Then it was easy to record a album that would survive the test of time.
I really doubt that, especially for underground bands who need to deal with daily jobs.
The issue is that you seem to contradict yourself at times, and saying you have 'perfect knowledge' of this music just because you were there, yet had and have these stringent and kind of strange criterion for what you'd give a chance stands at odds with each other.
You mentioned subjectivity, obviously, but then that makes constantly breaking things down into percentages, always this is this BECAUSE, and then some strange reasoning.
Whatever problem there is with music, metal, today, has nothing to do with the proficiency of the musicians or the amount of time they practice. If you look around you'll see there is a vast number of bands where people are of extremely high technical ability, people in bedrooms are in fact sometimes at a level most 80's bands were not when it comes to mechanical skills - the argument you put forth simply makes no sense.
Again you missed the point about WASP... and how you can think stuff off "Headless Children" in any way shape or form is comparable to RATT or POISON etc. - you can't keep repeating that if you don't actually sit down and listen to that record instead of going on about how you never really listened to them because of this or that.
Also seems the point about independent bands did not come across. You're basically saying that if a band was really good enough then a label would have picked them up and released their stuff. And I'm saying that is utter nonsense... Just look at all the amazing 7"s etc. John Haupt has dug up which have been totally unknown throughout the 80's beyond any local sphere if even that.
Yes I understand everyone has an era they enjoy the most, it usually seems though that you stonewall anything outside that bracket to a large degree... Though now you're saying not so.
I'm not pissed off in the sense you might think, I enjoy any argument/debate.
And that Lords of the Crimson Alliance LP is pretty quirky, I have it, nice cover, but it doesn't get played often As for Grudge records, the first ALIAS LP they put out is amazing
Are you the tyrant, who cast them to the sea?
One day you'll be among the dead.
Basically, all the "world class" bands which succeeded were those who were at right place in right time + had certain management behind the scene who did hyped 'em. That's the way how things go, and I'm always surprised seeing underground people who don't get that.
You can be awesome, truly genious, practiced and skilled to the max, but if you aren't in the line of your certain era and have no good management to hype you up, you can't do much. That said, the time of "world class" and "legendary" bands within real heavy metal are long way gone days. That doesn't mean that there aren't great HM bands these days, but they will always stay overlooked because they don't belong to the right era.
As for Grudge records, the first ALIAS LP they put out is amazing 