The best Pagan Altar LP...

[ION BRITTON]

they have stuff that can hardly be called Heavy Metal.

I guess I have absolutely no idea what heavy metal is then... fuck, who cares.

For example this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jMfaoN18sI

Some kind of esoteric folk rock with a little bit heavier guitars, but no metal here as far as I'm concerned.

[Vaggelis]

I am with Giannis,Pagan Altar never meant anything to me at all.the fact that they are today's retro-undergroundsuperstars while tons of bands from the 80s are buried under shit forever does nothing but prove that infrastructures and powers-that-be rule everything,even in the 'underground'.

What he said.
+
I want Speed in my Metal.

[Bane]

People are so fucking ridiculously protective of Pagan Altar - they never meant shit in the 80's, get over it.

It means nothing to me whether or not they were relevant in the 80s. The fact of the matter is, it's 2011 and people love them now. We aren't being ridiculously protective - it's a simple case of arguing in favour of a band we enjoy. You can't seem to grasp that concept at all.

As for the whole "they're not Metal"; it's such a moot point. There's a lot of NWOBHM that skirts around the boundary of what can be considered Metal. Call them what you like, there are many Metal fans who love them.

I never see the point of posting in a thread about a band I don't like. Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, whether it's for or against, but to incessantly post negative comments... I'm not sure what people hope to achieve. Are fans are going to look at the argument and think "Oh, actually you're right, I don't like this band anymore"??

The mind boggles.

Anyway, I think my favourite time seeing them has been the first time they played Dublin back in 2009. The venue was tiny and there was no stage so the only thing separating the crowd from the band were the front monitors. It was their first gig without Rich too, so Alan was quite nervous playing both guitar parts live for the first time. Nervousness soon put to rest as the crowd sang out the parts of the missing second guitar for the entire 100+ minute set. You could see the huge grins on the bands face throughout the performance... magic.

The ULU gig in London was something special though. The atmosphere was electric. Queuing at the bar wasn't a simple case of queuing for a drink; everyone was introducing themselves and engaging in conversation. I've been to a fair few gigs & festivals since then and I've still never experienced anything like it. All bands killed that night too. Try as I might, I couldn't even get drunk afterwards (and believe me, I tried). I was too full of adrenaline! Awesome.

[mordred]

Seems I need to be piss drunk to bother about logging in here and enter a discussion.

Anyway, some of you guys (I still think you are a cool guy ION, no offence at all) are killing me with this Pagan Altar not metal routine. I think I know what it boils down to. There is nothing "80's" in Pagan Altar and some just don't know how to define heavy metal if there isn't, which I find quite amusing.

they never meant shit in the 80's, get over it.

Instant nomination for most pointless post ever, congratulations.

[ION BRITTON]

Hey, no offense taken. It doesn't have to do whether there's too much 80s or not in PA, personally it's simply the fact that what I hear doesn't move me at all. BTW, I didn't say that their whole discography is non-metal, but tracks like the one I posted above don't fit the bill for me.

[great_knuthulhu]

I am not surprised at all that there are many metalheads who don't like Pagan Altar much. Terry Jones' voice is an acquired taste and they often go very close to pure prog and have quite a few folky tendencies too. M&M shared a lot of features with Jethro Tull IMO, and that is not for everybody here to like.

And ULU was fantastic. Cheers to everyone who was there.

Some cudos to Daniel for creating the biggest strawman since they filmed "The Wicker Man"

[Bane]

Some cudos to Daniel for creating the biggest strawman since they filmed "The Wicker Man"

Brilliant.

[CloudsOfMetal]

Pagan Altar, metal or not, still sounds good in my opinion. I chose the Volume 1 because it's the one I'm really addicted to.

[J.K.]

I'm one of the three "boring" voters. I'm agree with those who are "pissed" by their big popularity since few years. I may be wrong but I do see some kind of big worshipping of them since maybe 5 years.

So I don't think they are bad, but I'm not too fond of them + sometimes I tink they ripp Black Sabbath's riffs off, a little bit too obvious for my taste.

And I don't know all the story but, I'm usually wary about bands that magically recorded an album in the 80's but only released in late 90's...

[daniel]

Saying they were irrelevant in the 80's was a drunken quip, and didn't fit the discussion at hand. The reason it came out though was in reference to how people elsewhere have tried to bestow the band with great historical relevance, when I don't see any evidence for it. Along with people, in my eyes at least, kind of lying about how long they've worshipped the band.

People are pretty defensive in general, I mean I got voted idiot of the year for slamming M&M in a review. Now, I might not agree with everything I said if reading it again but whatever, it was pretty funny. May be some similarities to Jethro Tull in style, but nowhere near the genius of Ian Anderson PA completely lacks the layered complexity.

Arguing rocks haha

Yeah, I was at the ULU gig, as an event it was loads of fun, but PA didn't move me.

On posting in threads about bands one doesn't like... I know your view is a common retort, for me only posting about stuff I like is totally boring.

[great_knuthulhu]

Saying they were irrelevant in the 80's was a drunken quip, and didn't fit the discussion at hand. The reason it came out though was in reference to how people elsewhere have tried to bestow the band with great historical relevance, when I don't see any evidence for it. Along with people, in my eyes at least, kind of lying about how long they've worshipped the band.

People are pretty defensive in general, I mean I got voted idiot of the year for slamming M&M in a review. Now, I might not agree with everything I said if reading it again but whatever, it was pretty funny. May be some similarities to Jethro Tull in style, but nowhere near the genius of Ian Anderson PA completely lacks the layered complexity.

Arguing rocks haha

Yeah, I was at the ULU gig, as an event it was loads of fun, but PA didn't move me.

On posting in threads about bands one doesn't like... I know your view is a common retort, for me only posting about stuff I like is totally boring.

Posting about bands one doesn't like is OK if you stay on track and be fair to them and those who like them. As you do above.

PA were of course only known among a very small group of tape traders and never met much acclaim until the last decade. They were excellent in the 80s too though, and would have deserved a lot better than what they got. I know some people tend to insist they've known about the band for ages - often very unlikely statements - but I don't really pay much attention to that. I knew nothing before the Volume 1 release which I bought in '99 but was totally hooked on it once I heard it.

As for the Jethro Tull thing, it shouldn't be drawn too far of course. I do prefer Jones to Anderson in the vocals department. Also, a marginal win for Jones over Barre on the guitar actually. But I rate 70s Tull on about the same level as PA, having loved Anderson's adventures for 30 years +.

[Piotr Sargnagel]

Mythical and Magical for me. Love this band and Barry I was there that night in Dublin in '09 and it was one of the most magical experiences I have ever had, just fantastic. I'm not "protective" of the band, that's just silly! I just love the music.

And Pagan Altar not Metal?? Give me a break.

[Divine Victim]

I am with Giannis,Pagan Altar never meant anything to me at all.the fact that they are today's retro-undergroundsuperstars while tons of bands from the 80s are buried under shit forever does nothing but prove that infrastructures and powers-that-be rule everything,even in the 'underground'.

I really don't get your point about the "infrastructures" and "powers-that-be". The argument may well have mileage for some high profile new bands from recent years, but I fail to see how it can be aimed against PA.

Also, I don't find the complaint that a select few songs (e.g. the often cited Crowman) aren't heavy metal "steel" particularly significant. There are loads of bands who have their chilled out moments and still ooze the spirit of metal. But that's a taste issue so not really worth debating.

I voted for the "love them all" option, which I normally consider a cop out in polls, but PA are a rare case where I genuinely like all their albums just as much but on different levels. All three are different beasts, so it doesn't make sense to me to choose just one. I suppose it is entirely a mood thing.

I was also at the ULU show, which was my first time seeing PA (though I made it to Warning's warm-up gig in Harlow a few nights earlier... that was incredible too). It was an amazing event and I thought PA's performance was spine-chilling. It was kind of unfortunate that Terry was reading lyrics from a sheet of paper at times, but he still nailed the vocals.

By contrast, PA's aborted appearance at the British Steel fest at the Underworld was such a let down - no fault of their own, I think the drummer had a transport crisis. But to be psyched up and then see them leave the stage after one(?) song was crushing. We still got Cloven Hoof with Russ North though!

I'm looking forward to this year's British Steel which PA are billed for again!

[MEXDefenderOfSteel]

to a certain degree i get the idea of people labeling PA not as heavy metal. I mean, my best non metal friend,which happens to like classic rock even a lil bit of 70s prog, loved PA after playing a couple of songs to him,so yea

...still metal to me

[FuneralCircle]

Metal... not metal... whatever... Judgement of the Dead is one of the doomiest tracks I can think of right away...

They were the best band I've ever seen live in my entire life. Nothing can even compare!! Absolutely fantastic!!