New Darkthrone?

New bands, new releases, new metallic events, reissues, post-millenia-Metal in general...
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Brainbiter
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Post by Brainbiter »

Azaras wrote:HELLHAMMER and VENOM are the absolute epitome of "black metal", or "death metal", or whatever you want to call it. They are much of the deathtone of all these '80s bands with gruesome demo-covers and harsh rehearsals. The screechy vocals and razor-sharp guitar of all these '90s Norwegian bands was taken from HELLHAMMER!


The screechy vocals and the razor-sharp quitars of the Norwegians came from Bathory. Hellhammer was the next step for them.
Venom and Hellhammer are not the epitome of black or death metal, they stand on their own for what they are. They may have hugely influenced an entire generation of bands but I wouldn't call them BM. Venom were a faster-and-punkier-Motorhead who were having loads of stupid fun putting pentacles and goats on its covers when basically all they ever were about is getting drunk and "scoring fat chicks".This is not Black Metal, this is rock 'n roll. And I am really confident that they were not serious at all about their image (how can you be?). They were always outspoken of the fact that it was just a gimmick and you can read that in pretty much every interview they did from 1985-6 and on.
Hellhammer are DEATH, the sound of an animated corpse being pulled out of the grave just to be killed again while it shrills and curses.But they are not BM. They are more thrashers than they are anything else.
Black Metal is not just razor-sharp guitars, screechy vocals and a goat and a pentacle on the cover. Black Metal is about being dead serious. It is not just about the style (corpse paint, spread your legs when you pose etc) but the aesthetics that run through the music, why it should sound THIS way, the image of the band, the album covers, the lyrics etc. No "teacher caught me masturbating underneath the desk" is allowed. "the next 1000 years is ours" is more like it.The difference lies that there is no rock 'n' roll fun hidden anywhere. "All is black and black is all" seriousness is what BM is. Stupid? Yeap, most of the time. Autistic? Yeap, sure. Fun? NO sir.
Azaras wrote:BLACK SABBATH IS *THE* DOOM METAL BAND. BLACK SABBATH IS THE SOUND OF YOUR DOOM ITSELF.
As much as I love BS they will never be a doom band. Black Sabbath are Black Sabbath. They created the whole thing, influenced almost everybody and are hugely responsible for how HM turned to be. But they are not a doom metal band. Black Sabbath were the original HM band, you can say that. But Doom metal is another thing. Doom is Candlemass and Pentagram, St Vitus and early Trouble. Black Sabbath were dark hippies while doom is about taking that larger-than-life riff and basing your heavy metal on it.

Black Sabbath= dark hippies. Doom Metal= Heavy Metal.
Venom= NWoBHM version of a punkier Motorhead with a pentacle on the cover.
Black Metal= the autistic negation of fun

:D
Last edited by Brainbiter on Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ION BRITTON
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Post by ION BRITTON »

Venom are definitely NOT black metal. They just get the credits for inventing the term, no more no less. Very influential as well, but not black metal for christ's sake.
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OmenOfSteel
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Post by OmenOfSteel »

Brainbiter wrote:Hellhammer are DEATH, the sound of an animated corpse being pulled out of the grave just to be killed again while it shrills and curses.
Haha, great description, love it! :D
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tomas
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Post by tomas »

I think Fenriz' love for old and filthy 80s metal is true and genuine, I don't think he's posing. He's a metalhead raised in the 80s, so it's logical that he likes heavy metal.
By the way, didn't the 'Fenriz presents: The Best of oldschool black metal' that was released a few years ago feature a Bulldozer track?
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Helm
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Post by Helm »

I believe he likes the old metal. I don't think it has any place in Darkthrone, they're making a mockery out of their name, and they've been doing this for a good long while.
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Azaras
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Post by Azaras »

Brainbiter wrote:As much as I love BS they will never be a doom band. Black Sabbath are Black Sabbath. They created the whole thing, influenced almost everybody and are hugely responsible for how HM turned to be. But they are not a doom metal band. Black Sabbath were the original HM band, you can say that. But Doom metal is another thing. Doom is Candlemass and Pentagram, St Vitus and early Trouble. Black Sabbath were dark hippies while doom is about taking that larger-than-life riff and basing your heavy metal on it.

Black Sabbath= dark hippies. Doom Metal= Heavy Metal.
Venom= NWoBHM version of a punkier Motorhead with a pentacle on the cover.
I'll agree with what you said about Hellhammer (although many vocals on the Triumph of Death demo sound identical to Norwegian black metal bands of later days, though Bathory certainly had a hand for sure), but I just can't agree when it comes to Black Sabbath.

There is NOTHING that Saint Vitus, '80s Pentagram and Count Raven did that Sabbath did not do HEAVIER, SLOWER, and DARKER. Records like "Born Too Late" and "Mournful Cries" are NOT more doomy than Black Sabbath, they are just worshipping at the altar.

The thing about bands like SAINT VITUS is, they often had "loose" sounding sections. BLACK SABBATH had these too on their stuff, but the heavy metal tracks on stuff like "Master Of Reality" are total riff-fests so hard and doomy every Saint Vitus track is just a goddamn commentary. "Master Of Reality" may have some soft intros and solitude, but it is hands down the heaviest and doomiest metal album ever released. No band ever topped tunes like "Into The Void" (the intro riff alone!) or "Children Of The Grave" in terms of heaviness, "doominess", or whatever, and when bands like the '80s version of PENTAGRAM churn out power chords in stuff like "Burning Saviours", "Sign of the Wolf", and so on, it represents no actual development in the music. Just songs in the same dank mold that are almost as good.
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Helm
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Post by Helm »

Black Sabbath are the fathers of Heavy Metal. They are not a Doom Metal band, regardless of how great some doom songs by them are. It's shortsightedness to call them a Doom Metal band. And they're definitely not the best Doom Metal band for me. It's like saying the dude that invented chess (amongst other things he did) is the best chess player ever, when later on there's been people that hardcore devoted all their lives to chess and did amazing things. Sabbath went through a lot of types of HM through their carreer, they were not devoted to the Doom.

Epicus Doomicus Metallicus by the immortal Candlemass is the start of Doom Metal as a widely recognised genre, and in my opinion the best clear Epic Doom Metal offering. There were proto-doom heroes before them, but that's when the form gets the recognition.
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tomas
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Post by tomas »

Early Black Sabbath = DOOM!
How can you say those first four or five albums are not doom albums??
It's heavy, most of the time it's slow and it sounds dark.
'Black Sabbath' is the first true doom song.
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Helm
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Post by Helm »

first four or five albums hit a lot of moods (Black Sabbath were great!). It's important to make a distinction between something that created the field, and then the genre distinctions that came later. Black Sabbath created Heavy Metal. Doom metal came to exist much later, and it's not very smart to retcon older stuff as doom 'proper'. We generally use proto-doom for this, to explain what the heritage of that music is, but there's no reason to take it any further. Because if you do, then King Crimson's '21st Century Schizoid Man' is total prog-metal dude!... It's not, you see, it's heavy and it's complicated but that thing didn't exist yet.
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mega_lodon
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Post by mega_lodon »

Brainbiter wrote: 'If you don't know what I mean
Fuckin' listen to Venom's Acid Queen!
I made my own code
I sold my soul to Manilla Road!'

...and this is disgusting.
He is trying to ride the Good Ol' Heavy Metal train. Soon to be a major trend.
That's what I'm thinking too. Reading the lyrics above, I have a feeling Fenriz is trying to send out a message to the people: “look, don't criticize my new musical style ‘cos I drew inspirations from those legendary bands!". Darkthrone is even more 'cunning' than Kreator imo!
But then again, I’ve only heard Transylvanian Hunger and since then I never bother to pick up any of their other records. Maybe I’m not the right person to talk shit about Darkthrone. I still stand my ground nevertheless.
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The Erlking
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Post by The Erlking »

I must say I enjoy NWOBHM and the full-lenght.
I don't care about their motives because I think it's positive if people will find these classic bands because of these lyrics.
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DaN
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Post by DaN »

Until Fenriz signs up here I'm sceptical...
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Noisenik
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Post by Noisenik »

DaN wrote:Until Fenriz signs up here I'm sceptical...
That's the word, dude. I doubt he's here already. :)
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Tormentor
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Post by Tormentor »

If he is namedropping Manilla Road and Discharge, I don't care, I think it's good no matter how honest he is or not. And besides, they are obviously so tongue-in-cheek at this point that it's useless to analyse it at all... so, the joke is on you.
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Helm
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Post by Helm »

The HM that enchanted me didn't namedrop HM bands in the songs (well... most of the time). A good HM record makes you feel when you're listening to it, as if it's the ONLY HM record ever recorded and the only one you should ever listen to. A small universe in itself. Melissa. Epicus Doomicus Metallicus. Even Nigro Mantia's 'Poetry of Subculture' does this excellently. Self-contained encapsulation of power and glory, pride and tragedy. This type of 'arrogance' is a specific trait of 80's HM (though exceptions of course, exist) and it's a big reason why molten steel from that era has yet to cool off. Post-modern idiocy 'hey listen to these bands they're awesome let me school you while you listen to my song' does not apply. Fenriz likes 80's metal but he doesn't understand it, it seems, if all he can do with it is write a list of 'BUY OR DIE' for his liner notes and namedrop Manilla Road and Omen.
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