Cerebus - Anyone knows ?

...and all CD issues goes here.
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rumblefist
Posts: 955

Cerebus - Anyone knows ?

Post#1 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:47 pm

the titles of the 2 songs on the Cult Metal Classics release (boot) of Too Late To Pray ?

I mean the 2 untitled tracks - track 15 and track 16 ?

http://www.discogs.com/Cerebus-Too-Late ... se/4022669

Zdan
Posts: 1087

Re: Cerebus - Anyone knows ?

Post#2 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:58 am

rumblefist wrote:the titles of the 2 songs on the Cult Metal Classics release (boot) of Too Late To Pray ?

I mean the 2 untitled tracks - track 15 and track 16 ?

http://www.discogs.com/Cerebus-Too-Late ... se/4022669
Sorry not to answer your question but I am curious - why do you consider the Cerebus CD a boot? Because of what Ann of New Rennaisance said?

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rumblefist
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Post#3 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:33 pm

Sorry for not answering your question - but i'm only interested in the titles.

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Prowler
Posts: 1521

Post#4 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:39 pm

Unnamed trax on "official" re-releases do always scream that magic BOOTLEG. No?
However that are the 2 trax that I have on the pro made Demo I was searching for anyknow to know more about it.
It's not easy to be the Antichrist ...

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Priamos
Posts: 516

Re: Cerebus - Anyone knows ?

Post#5 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:35 pm

Zdan wrote:
Sorry not to answer your question but I am curious - why do you consider the Cerebus CD a boot? Because of what Ann of New Rennaisance said?
Hm...I was surprised, too, seeing this and Phantom mentioned in the NR page as bootlegs. Both don't look/sound like bootlegs.They were also promoted/advertised/sold using legit ways. I was also quite close to the label owner back then and he didn't leave me any shadow of doubt that they are legit. I guess there must have been an agreementl with some band members that their label doesn't accept (as it probably still holds the copy rights).

Sorry, for the offtopic, but it seems Rumble create unintentionally an interesting subject to talk about! :wink:

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rumblefist
Posts: 955

Post#6 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:37 pm

Nah - i've enough of Boots (or not) or musical tastes/bands discussions. There's always somebody who loose his/her temper. But, if you guys wish it, this is right place with so many experts in the matter.

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Stormspell
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Re: Cerebus - Anyone knows ?

Post#7 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:31 am

Priamos wrote:I guess there must have been an agreement with some band members that their label doesn't accept (as it probably still holds the copy rights).
The labels in question do not own the copyrights over the music, they own only the master usage rights over the particular recordings.

Even if the bands have been duped to sign off their copywrights in the past, there was a major law change in the late 90s which made the absorption of copywrights unlawful, with retroactive effect.

So in order for a re-release to be completely legit, one has to procure permission from both the label (or whoever owns the master recording) for the master usage rights, and from the song writer(s) for the mechanical licensing rights (or pay mechanical licenses through a copyright agency like BMI or ASCAP, etc.). Anything shorter than this is not "100% legit" which ironically is the case with many many current re-releases, with bands usually being at the short end of the stick (I'm not talking about this particular case, but in general).

Hope this info helps.

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Priamos
Posts: 516

Post#8 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:48 am

Damn!!! Then it's really a bitch to make a proper, legit reissue!!!

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lox
Posts: 148

Post#9 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:42 am

Prowler wrote:Unnamed trax on "official" re-releases do always scream that magic BOOTLEG. No?
No. I have a certain vinyl box with 2 unnamed trax on it. :wink: Sometimes trax just remained unnamed.


@Stormspell
If I understood you correctly: If you have a mastertape (legally obtained), then you can release the music that's on it without asking permission? All you need to do is pay the liscenses thru those agencies?


sorry rumblefist for hijacking your thread :)

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rumblefist
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Post#10 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:48 pm

No probs Lox.

Now, i'm also very curious about Stormpell reply. 8)

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Stormspell
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Post#11 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:49 pm

Hey, I'm in no way an expert in this, just sharing of what I've learned thus far. For proper and definitive answer to your questions you really need to consult with a qualified entertainment lawyer.

@lox: if you obtain master usage and pay mechanical statutory rates via ascap I do believe you should be all good to go, yes. Of course it would always be better to work directly with the band and have them involved for a better product (liner notes, archive photos, bonuses, etc.) but technically you can do it as described above. This is how re-issue labels like Wounded Bird operate.

That's the purpose of those copyright agencies - to collect royalties and licenses on behalf of the artists/copyright holders. They have a statutory rate which is about 10 cents per song, so if you want to press a 10-track cd in 1000 copies, you would pay roughly $1000 (plus some small processing fees).

Those agencies retain commission fees of up to 50%, so that's why they are quite aggressive and proactive sometimes :lol: , although by law you can bypass them and cut a direct deal with the copyright holder if you can find it and he is willing to work with you. Is some cases this is too complicated so it is as well easier to go through the agency (like when you want to put a cover song on your album, and have no idea how to contact whoever wrote it).

And of course this only works if the copyright holder had published his material with those agencies. Some bands never did.

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lox
Posts: 148

Post#12 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:44 am

Stormspell wrote:For proper and definitive answer to your questions you really need to consult with a qualified entertainment lawyer.
Right, as if I had a couple of hundred euros left just to ask them few questions :D

Thanks for the insightful answer, it lightens the fog a bit. There are still some questions left but we leave it at that for now.

@rumblefist
No luck finding the bandmembers thru facebook? I think they are the only ones who could answer your question, I would guess the songs had a title since they were released on a promo tape...

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rumblefist
Posts: 955

Post#13 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:18 am

Nah Lox, going lesser and lesser to FB.
In 1 more month i will throw my account to the garbage and i will connect only to gmail and the 2 or 3 usual Foruns.

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