Massive 'Running Wild - Gates To Purgatory CD' help needed!

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wom
Posts: 186

Post#16 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:35 pm

ebay, discogs, german sellers all the time ...i have never seen it. wtf ...

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Avenger
Posts: 8181

Post#17 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:36 am

wom wrote:ebay, discogs, german sellers all the time ...i have never seen it. wtf ...


There's 3 or 4 on ebay right now. Did you ask all of them?
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"

stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."

wom
Posts: 186

Post#18 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:16 pm

Avenger wrote:
wom wrote:ebay, discogs, german sellers all the time ...i have never seen it. wtf ...


There's 3 or 4 on ebay right now. Did you ask all of them?


Yes, i ve be checking for that one 2-3 times per week for a long time.
Maybe i have to find a Flames of Hell LP to trade for it :!: :!:

elcattivooo
Posts: 5

Post#19 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:04 pm

Avenger wrote:
Osmi_Putnik wrote:
Avenger wrote:Here's the problem, most guys around here collecting CD's will only have the first pressing of the disc and that is the copy with the "CDT-BERLIN" matrix prefix. That being said you aren't going to find a large enough set of statistics to prove either point and even if you did, the booklet itself has staples without any additional pages. The staples were put there to hold in additional pages and these pages are no longer existent. Even if your copy isn't put together from 2 or 3 different pressings in the end it's still not complete.

From what I know about your copy, this is a re-press from the mid 90’s. The “GZ” matrix prefix indicates that it’s from the pressing plant out of the Czech Republic and all of these CD’s on the Noise label were re-pressings. The reason why I compared your copy to a “Branded And Exiled” disc that I had was because these later re-pressings did have an additional set of pages put into the booklet that is otherwise identical to the first press except it contained a merchandise advertisement/order form for releases put out around the same time the CD was pressed (mid 90’s).


Avenger, are you shure that CDT-Berlin is very 1st CD press of Gates...?
I just wonder...what's about MAGNA W,GERMANY + something, somewhere i noticed that this is 1st press, maybe is "vicious rumor" :o , just wanna your oppinion


I'm positive. I've had probably a dozen of these CD's over the years. The "MAGNA" pressing is from 1989/1990. All other CD's pressed by this same plant on Noise were released around this time as is referenced by CD's such as the Tankard - "Alien" EP.


Sorry, but you may be wrong. As far as I know this is the chronological order of the early Noise issues: P+O, Magna, CDT, however both P+O and Magna pressings can be considered as 1st pressings. There was a short overlapping since these pressing plants manufactured Noise CD's in 1988 and 89 simultaneously. CDT CD's were produced after 1990 or rather 1991 along with Blazon Stone and First Years Of Piracy.

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Heathen
Posts: 1233

Post#20 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:18 pm

It might be a bit more complicated, as Stone Cold Sober is on P+O and it's from 1992.

elcattivooo
Posts: 5

Post#21 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:30 pm

Heathen wrote:It might be a bit more complicated, as Stone Cold Sober is on P+O and it's from 1992.


Yes, it's true. Thank you for the addition. But as I see it makes no difference to the order of the first 3 releases so it could only mean that either P+O produced Noise CD's continously through the years or Noise contracted with P+O GmbH in 1992 again for a period of time (maybe for a few newer albums such as Tankards new CD from 1992). I think the latter one is the most likely. If my informations are correct 1992 was the last year when (a small number of) albums were manufactured with matrix codes beginning with CDT Berlin. The next re-release was the GZ pressing. At first, some copies were sold with non-matching inserts (inserts of the previous releases) then the majority was issued with newer inserts.

Anyway, no matter if P+O, Magna or CDT, each of them is rare and collectible. That reminds me of the first TS - Under The Blade pressings which entered the market at the same time. I apologize for my poor English.

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Heathen
Posts: 1233

Post#22 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:20 pm

I also found:
1991 - Grinder - Nothing's Sacred - P+O Matrix

Also I have Terrible Certainity that looks like first press (SPV, no barcode, black disk) with GZ matrix...

But in general what you write makes sense.

You seem to have a lot of knowledge about Noise operations - do you have any idea about when did they switch distributor from SPV to RTD?

elcattivooo
Posts: 5

Post#23 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:52 pm

Thank you, but I'm just one of the collectors and nothing more. RW is one of my favourite bands. I could find my way rather around Sony (CBS, Columbia) CD's as I concentrate mostly on collecting Judas Priest releases.

To your question: It seems that Noise CD's were distributed by Rough Trade from late in 1992 (or from early in 1993?).

(PS.: Examples of RW CD’s with matrix BOD MOD… (pressed by the very same plant which manufactured CDT Berlin CD's) were also distributed by RTD sometime after 1992/93. Perhaps between GZ and MPO??)

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Avenger
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Post#24 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:51 am

The information that you are providing is inconsistent and therefore has no basis. I'm not at home right now to go through all my Noise International CD's to compare dates and pressings but I do know that I've never seen any Magna discs from earlier then 1989 or any GZ discs from earlier then 1992. So those are off the list.

CDT and CDP look very similar to me. I can't recall at this point (it's 3:00 AM) what the earliest CDT prefix disc is but CDP goes back as early as 1986.


Regarding Judas Priest Columbia/CBS CD's, in your opinion, which discs came first? For the US pressings, the DADC copies go back to 1986. Is there anything earlier? I can divide this into a separate topic is it's expanded upon in greater detail.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"

stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."

elcattivooo
Posts: 5

Post#25 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:03 pm

I have to contradict you. It's a strong exaggeration to say that this info has no basis or it is inconsistent. To begin with, I haven't said GZ discs are earlier than 1992. Regarding the other pressings, I wrote that P+O and Magna discs were issued from 1988 to 1990 simultaneously followed by CDT in 1990 or 1991. I provide only information that I got from other collectors over the years during my collecting activities (for example on Ebay), what the logic says as well as what I read once in various forums. In problematic questions, such as this, generally, I used to ask private sellers on Ebay how they obtained a given item (if they bought it as new or used and when it happened). Naturally, I didn't asked thousands of people so you can look on my words as a hypothesis if you want but I shall continue to believe that I handed on authentic information. I don't have any written evidence because we can speak about facts in the case of P+O pressings only. Why do you think that CDT pressings of RW albums are older than the other 2? I agree that CDT Berlin CD plant itself existed before Magna and P+O CD's came out. It was founded in 1987. However it has nothing to do with CDP matrix (EMI pressing plants in Gütersloh, Hannover...). But please correct me if I'm wrong! I would like to say only that the existence of CDT Berlin alone doesn't mean this plant manufactured RW discs prior to the other 2 releases. Excuse me for this long post, I hardly express myself in English. I hope you don't misunderstand me. I would like to know much more details about these early releases from you and from others, too. I suppose you will already agree if I say that the foregoing isn't inconsistent, but rather there are still some open, uncleared questions eg. issue date of CDT CD's. Maybe, someday I (or someone else) will send an email to this company and they will answer these questions.


Which pressings entered the US market at first? You know the answer. DADC copies with the exception of 3 albums.
Defenders: there are at least 2 different Japanese made releases for the Us market. The first DADC pressing could be the 3rd US issue at best.
Turbo: it's uncertain if a Japan for USA CD exist, but the logic says, at least one should exist
Priest…Live: 1 Japan for USA CD

I think it is mentionable that not all CD's with DADC marking in the hub can considered as first issues. Here are for example 2 copies of the Sin After Sin album pressed probably in Terre Haute. The first disc has "CK 34787 // DIDP 20420" on it above the cd logo, matrix: DIDP 20420 11A(x), hub: DADC. A later issue (same mastering) has new project code, namely 020420, but still has the same matrix and the DADC marking, too. Nonetheless, I would say that the second copy is rarer than the first pressing. Generally, copies with both DADC marking and later project ID are rare, that's my experience.

elcattivooo
Posts: 5

Post#26 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:16 pm

I must admit you set me thinking because theoretically, CDT Berlin could made RW CD's during the disputed years. But what or who will confirm this?

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Avenger
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Post#27 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:05 am

elcattivooo wrote:I must admit you set me thinking because theoretically, CDT Berlin could made RW CD's during the disputed years. But what or who will confirm this?


This is exactly the problem I have when discussing very early CD's. I'm not necessarily saying that you are wrong but the inconsistencies of these companies early days when pressing this stuff and the lack of reliable sources to verify information brings up many question marks. I believe what I do based on my own experiences and having dealt with many copies of most of this stuff over the years. I'd rather do the research myself (even if it means spending money in most cases) then asking other people because a lot of the time it's just hearsay.

Regarding the Magna and GZ part of my post from yesterday, that wasn't made in reply specifically to what you posted but rather just as a baseline to determine the origin of these discs and cross them off the list.

To be honest with you, I really don't like these kinds of "which is absolutely the first press" discussions. Most of the time if someone comes to me with a question regarding two similar pressings from the same label with very minimal differences, I tell them to make the decision themselves as there is no way to prove otherwise.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"

stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."

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