Current vinyl collector scene

All vinyl-specific issues goes in this here subforum.
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whiteravenmetal
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#16 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:14 am

nightsblood wrote:so as the next generation grows up and gets real jobs, they may want to start spending some of their disposable income on collecting the stuff they downloaded as teenagers but couldn't afford to purchase back then.


And that's exactly what I'm doing :) well not really even when I dindn't had a real job I used to spend it all on records, I don't have a "big" collection but at least I love everything I have and was even lucky to score some great stuff when prices were not as retarded as are today. Also getting a collection in places like South America can be 3 times more expensive than in Europe and North America (shipping rates make a magnificent job at fucking everything up) but still there are plenty of distros, sellers and even stores (who sadly have turned to the same stupid game of overpriced records even for reissues). I don't consider myself a collector, more a picky metalhead who likes to have the right music in the right format.

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Prowler
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#17 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:12 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:yes, indeed bargains are quite impossible to find. This year I have not found even one.


Sure the bargain price records are still there, found plenty of them and even unknown shit in the past months, but why posting pics etc of them if you get blamed for it? So better keep all stuff for yourself ... this way you live the most safe.
It's not easy to be the Antichrist ...

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Warepire
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#18 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:50 pm

While I am mostly into the CD scene, most of the things said in this thread apply to me as well.

People are asking top dollar for everything. I've seen early 2000s CDs on SPV sell for over 50 bucks, CDs like Doro. I personally feel people put less and less care into packaging the CDs, questions aren't answered, condition grades are not as accurate, or you end up with a bootleg. This applies to fairs as well as online.

Collection/information databases like Metal-Archives, Discogs and Musik-Sammler seems to have a grudge with me over trying to keep datasets accurate, as I have been limited for editing/adding on both.

There's really little point in being (openly) active anymore.
What good is a life that leaves nothing behind, not a thought nor a dream to echo in time...
So what have I done in the eyes of the world, what have I done that will remain?

humus
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#19 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:31 pm

Prowler wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:yes, indeed bargains are quite impossible to find. This year I have not found even one.


Sure the bargain price records are still there, found plenty of them and even unknown shit in the past months, but why posting pics etc of them if you get blamed for it? So better keep all stuff for yourself ... this way you live the most safe.


I know we all refer to high prices as 'ebay prices' but in reality nowadays you can score some decent bargains on there. I just bought some records in the discogs median 70-80 euro range for half that on ebay, Known bands even, not some undergroud dayflies. Two years ago or so I scored a mint Burzum - Hvis lyset tar oss LP for under 50 euro. Discogs median is 300 euro.
Seems like there is a lot less activity on ebay, both on the demand and the ask side. So sometimes a rare record with a low starting price does not attract a lot of attention.

Discogs on the other hand is insane. Every day I get a mail with 20 to 50 items that are ridiculously overpriced. Might be good for common records but I only have rarities on my wantlist there. And for that, discogs is just plain useless. I wish I could exclude some sellers from those mails. I'm talking about you, sandersman, blasphemous_lust,...and a whole bunch of others. Money-hungry assholes.

Record-fair here tomorrow. Curious if I'll buy something second-hand. There's these guys that had a few boxes of death metal EP's with them. First time I saw them in the early '00s the average price was €10. Last year the average price was €40, for the same selection. Can't blame them for following the 'market' but I'm not paying that.

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DaN
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#20 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:51 am

Very interesting subject this, and Alan's rant was a great read, some of which I need to comment on later...

2 weeks ago I was off at the Solna international record fair (Scandinavia's largest). I chatted with some other sellers there and overheard a discussion of how the popularity of prog/psych - the old untouchable behemoths of Collector Genres - is going down in popularity. We speculated some of how the people who grew up with this music or are at least old enough to have some emotional ties to it are growing old. They either have everything 'haveable' or has lost the drive to collect, plus there's very little new blood coming into this scene. What's on the uprise? Metal. The demand for old Metal and Hard Rock vinyl has grown steadily for the last 5 years or more, anything from Def Leppard to Dark Throne basically. This also corresponds with the fact we've all noticed - the growing prices (...which I guess in a weird ironic way makes it a health-sign as far as the 'collector-scene' goes..). My own observation is that the buyers are in the ages of ca 25-50, i.e. people who "were there" to some extent.

Now for some bold, out-of-the-blue estimations:

Despite how "cult" old prog and psych seem today it was rather narrow and fairly underground forms of music back in the days - slightly more so than Metal was a decade or 2 later. This would mean there's an even larger pool of potential Metal-collector prospects out just waiting to get hooked (song now in head) ...so no, I don't think Metal-collecting is on the regress, quite the opposite.

Downside: Prices ...but more on this in my next rant.

Upsides: More people to talk rare Metals with + our own collections will look soooooo feckin' cool now :lol:


(At work so to be continued...)

Zombie Dance
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#21 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:29 pm

One thing is for sure, it'd be very hard starting your collection today. It's not so much the rarities that can hurt, but even stuffs that were average or common are starting to cost 30-65 euros. I'd be fucking sad if I had to pay 50 euros for Obsessed by Cruelty, even though it's supposed to be priceless, but those early shits used to cost 10-20 euros... :(

There are still some bargains out there, just score Nephandus lp for almost nothing on brazillian ebay... Just gotta be patient, more and more obviously.

humus
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#22 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:08 pm

Interesting. It basically comes down to this: if there ever was a time you would (hypothetically) sell off your records, when would you do it? If you look at it as a simple commodity, something which you want to sell when the price is peaking. Metal covers a whole range of sub-genres which all have their own dynamics, but if I was in it for the money I would sell everything now.

I'm not a record dealer so maybe my outlook is different. The prices of common records are being pushed upwards because the young generation wants them. I am now 30 years old and when I was 15 years old nobody my age wanted Iron maiden records, they wanted Iron maiden CD's. I don't think there's more instream of young metalfans than their was 15 years ago. It's just that they are more interested in vinyl than the previous generations. And that is just a general evolution, seen across all genres. Big chain stores now sell vinyl again. I had classmates who had never seen a vinyl in their life.
So for the price evolution of those records it comes down to: is this vinyl hype of a passing nature or not? And will more young people start listening to metal? I think the answer to the first question is 'yes'. The second answer 'no'.

For the expensive records it's people with disposable income disposing of their income. And just like with progrock you could see the same evolution in metal. The big spenders now are ones that were kids in the 80's and grew up with the music. At a certain age they'll retire from collecting and then you need new faces willing to spend the big bucks. Not sure if there will be enough new faces to keep the prices rising, or even on par. Just heard today on the record fair that some high rollers have downsized their activities for example.

Just some thoughts from my side. I don't think about this a lot to be honest. I'd actually prefer a market crash so that I could fill some holes in my collection. I got a decent job, I spend my income on records. I don't need records to generate an income for me. Maybe I'll think differently in 20 years, who knows.

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Zanker
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#23 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:27 am

humus wrote:Interesting. It basically comes down to this: if there ever was a time you would (hypothetically) sell off your records, when would you do it? If you look at it as a simple commodity, something which you want to sell when the price is peaking. Metal covers a whole range of sub-genres which all have their own dynamics, but if I was in it for the money I would sell everything now.

I'm not a record dealer so maybe my outlook is different. The prices of common records are being pushed upwards because the young generation wants them. I am now 30 years old and when I was 15 years old nobody my age wanted Iron maiden records, they wanted Iron maiden CD's. I don't think there's more instream of young metalfans than their was 15 years ago. It's just that they are more interested in vinyl than the previous generations. And that is just a general evolution, seen across all genres. Big chain stores now sell vinyl again. I had classmates who had never seen a vinyl in their life.
So for the price evolution of those records it comes down to: is this vinyl hype of a passing nature or not? And will more young people start listening to metal? I think the answer to the first question is 'yes'. The second answer 'no'.

For the expensive records it's people with disposable income disposing of their income. And just like with progrock you could see the same evolution in metal. The big spenders now are ones that were kids in the 80's and grew up with the music. At a certain age they'll retire from collecting and then you need new faces willing to spend the big bucks. Not sure if there will be enough new faces to keep the prices rising, or even on par. Just heard today on the record fair that some high rollers have downsized their activities for example.

Just some thoughts from my side. I don't think about this a lot to be honest. I'd actually prefer a market crash so that I could fill some holes in my collection. I got a decent job, I spend my income on records. I don't need records to generate an income for me. Maybe I'll think differently in 20 years, who knows.



Nice thoughts really! But want i really want to know is this: did you buy a secondhand record yesterday at the recordfair? It was a metalmarket for sure...so spill the beans... :D

humus
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#24 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:59 am

As predicted, mostly just new records. Also some cheap 'young second hand' ones (Esoteric vinyls from a few years back) and two records from the 90's. Someone was selling a copy of Worship him by Samael, which is a big gap in my collection, but priced at €100 I took a pass.

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Zanker
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#25 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:02 pm

humus wrote:As predicted, mostly just new records. Also some cheap 'young second hand' ones (Esoteric vinyls from a few years back) and two records from the 90's. Someone was selling a copy of Worship him by Samael, which is a big gap in my collection, but priced at €100 I took a pass.


At least you found some records that are worthy to add to your collection. In my book that's a good recordfair then.

humus
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#26 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:48 pm

Zanker wrote:
humus wrote:As predicted, mostly just new records. Also some cheap 'young second hand' ones (Esoteric vinyls from a few years back) and two records from the 90's. Someone was selling a copy of Worship him by Samael, which is a big gap in my collection, but priced at €100 I took a pass.


At least you found some records that are worthy to add to your collection. In my book that's a good recordfair then.


It's not bad. But when I was a student I'd go and spend my entire budget in an hour. Now my budget is unlimited (not really of course. But if there were some massive bargains I could buy whatever I want) and I end up spending less than what I did as a student.
That has two reasons of course. First: higher prices and less bargains. Second: my collection is a lot bigger compared to then, a lot of the gaps have been filled already.

By the way...Ronny? Was hoping to see you yesterday! Lost your contact info when I switched mobile phones last year.

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Zanker
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#27 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:39 pm

humus wrote:
Zanker wrote:
humus wrote:As predicted, mostly just new records. Also some cheap 'young second hand' ones (Esoteric vinyls from a few years back) and two records from the 90's. Someone was selling a copy of Worship him by Samael, which is a big gap in my collection, but priced at €100 I took a pass.


At least you found some records that are worthy to add to your collection. In my book that's a good recordfair then.


It's not bad. But when I was a student I'd go and spend my entire budget in an hour. Now my budget is unlimited (not really of course. But if there were some massive bargains I could buy whatever I want) and I end up spending less than what I did as a student.
That has two reasons of course. First: higher prices and less bargains. Second: my collection is a lot bigger compared to then, a lot of the gaps have been filled already.

By the way...Ronny? Was hoping to see you yesterday! Lost your contact info when I switched mobile phones last year.



Yes, I stopped selling records there. I had it with older buyers that always have the urge to say that they found the records for much cheaper 20 years ago. Ofcourse, everything was cheaper 20 years ago! Then, the young ones (not the UK comedy bunch) walking around with a budget of 40euro where they spend half of it on the bar and then spilling beer over your crates because they got drunk after 4 beers. I still have some records for sale but the ones i like I have framed and hung them on my wall. Must say that Apocalyptic Raids looks nice framed!
I was in doubt yesterday to go as a visitor but last years i didn't find anything so I stayed home. I remember that our plan was to meet again so we can swap some tapes ;)

edit: I've sent you a mail, if you haven't changed it.

DESECRATOR777
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#28 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:18 am

Actually, I find the dying down of collecting good. It eliminates the "show boat" crowd somewhat. Certain records have become increasingly difficult to obtain for sure, my want list is less then 5 records mind you, and you all know that discoveries continue to happen all be it less and less often because there are only so many hours in the day and also to enjoy what you already have is a great thing. absorb the magickal tunes . With that said , some person and i am sure this person is on the forum got his feelings hurt that i would not trade something from my collection and he was like oh well, i still got such and such thing. whatever young one. you cant have everything regardless that you have disposable income. the lesson to learn here junior is strength thru strife. no fuck off! :lol:
spit on thunder!

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nightsblood
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Re: Current vinyl collector scene

Post#29 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:52 pm

A quick follow-up before DaN posts pt 2 of his reply.

Re: humus, sounds like you and I are in the same boat. I remember I used to use all my free money to buy up used cassettes, vinyl, used CDs... anything that looked interesting that I hadn't heard. I only had $10-20 some months, but I could walk out of the store with 6-10 tapes/albums I'd never heard before. Now, I can afford to spend more if I want to, but there's just not that much I still feel compelled to hear.

Re: price increases on 'the common stuff', one thing that is very hard for 'old' collectors to realize is that the 'common' records eventually stop being common. Yes, things like Iron Maiden LPs are more expensive now than they used to be, but that's due, in part, to the fact that they're harder to find than they used to be. 20-30 years ago you'd trip over stacks of Maiden and Priest vinyl in record stores. Now, you're lucky to even see a copy of 'Turbo' on the shelf (well, I'm not sure it's ever lucky to see THAT album on the shelf... but you get my point). Here are some harsh truths for us old-timers:
'The Number of the Beast' is 35 years old.
'Hell Bent for Leather' turns 40 next year.
The first Dragonforce album is already 15 years old as of next year.
F@##$king Nightwish released their first album 20 years ago! How has THAT band been around for 20 freaking years already?!?! People have been born and graduated from high school since this band showed up!
Conclusion: it's been DECADES since those common albums were released, and over that time they've been bought up, or thrown out, and so you just don't see them as often anymore. Meanwhile, you have GENERATIONS (plural!) that have been born since they were released and some of them now want copies too.... so there's still demand but no more supply. Thus, the ol' 'Maiden record you could get for $5 "back in the day" is a thing of the past.

Re: future collectors: it really depends on what they want to collect- that will determine what holds value and increases versus what gets cheaper. I've seen this with record collecting among the 'golden oldies' crowd. For example, Blues records are very popular among younger collectors, so the prices of the rarities are still very high and even climbing. But there's very little interest among young collectors in the teen heartthrob bands of the late 50s/early 60s, so those albums have plummeted in value compared to 20-30 years ago. If the kids of today decide that mallcore is the apotheosis of music, then we're all gonna regret not stocking up on those Betraying the Martyrs LPs. And if tomorrow's collectors decide black metal was the biggest bunch of crap since 'Jem and the Holograms: the Movie', then you'll be lucky to get $50 for an orig DSP pressing of a Burzum LP.
"I'm sorry Sam, we had real chemistry. But like a monkey on the sun, our love was too hot to live"
-Becky

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