Yet another discussion about bootlegs

[doomedplanet]

I prefer to never get into a discussion with you. I enjoy beating my head against a brick wall, that is more fun.

Its an Avenger statement, they don't always have to make sense, usually they don't....

Did you really just ask that?

Thanks for the extremely detailed, in-depth insight into the topic. I thought for sure as someone that formerly ran a label you would have had more to add on the subject...

[Stormspell]

The bootlegger dude probably has pressed 300-500 vinyls and now just prints "jackets" - this week it is on Green paper, limited to 10 copies. Next week it will be yellow, red, blue, and so on until he runs out of LPs. Will his pressings be limited to 10? Sure, if you count the jacket color, it is all semantics.

The funny thing is, there probably will be idiots trying to collect all colors...

[Avenger]

Avenger said:
"When it's unofficial it doesn't"

You could not be more wrong. Whether you like it or not, people will buy bootlegs and they will pay a lot of money for some of them. It is just your opinion that "boots should go for peanuts"; lots of people disagree with you. Watch auctions on ebay any day of the week and you'll see plenty of people willing to pay high prices for boots. You may not like it, but THAT is reality.

Re: why do I doubt this guy's honesty that he'll only make 10 copies? Let's see, he's already dishonest enough to press up bootlegs and make a profit while blatantly violating copyright laws & ebay rules. So why should we assume he's being honest about his pressing size? What, he's an honest bootlegger? There's an oxymoron. By advertising "only 10 made" he's obviously trying to hype the item to maximize profit, but as long as he doesn't flood the market with 'em, he can trickle copies out, sell a lot more than 10, and keep making money. This will make more sense to you if you ever accept the fact that people will pay more for an item- even a boot- if they think it is rare. You think someone would be bidding $66 for his Motorhead single if he said "1,000 pressed"?

The previous discussion focused on whether people should print boots/whether labels should complain when official reissues aren't available. This topic focuses on why people pay a lot for a brand new boot when the pressing size- and thus the rarity- cannot be confirmed.

As was already stated, I said what SHOULD be the case, not what is currently happening. If people want to support these tools and put big bucks into the pockets of those that make this shit then that’s their prerogative but in my opinion they are complete idiots with a serious lack of logic.

Again, you need to stop with the assumptions. Yeah, the guy is an asshole for putting this stuff out on a format that has already seen an official release but that doesn’t necessarily mean that his “limited to 10 copies” statement isn’t true. Maybe he’s trying to be one of the “old boot” guys that you seem to have respect for and actually keep these limited. Until you can show me more then 10 auctions for the same item, I’m going to think your just being pretentious for the sake of bashing this guy because his bootlegs aren’t 25 years old.

New boots, old boots, it makes no difference. It’s still unofficial and still filling the pockets of people that want to make a profit off of the bands work regardless how many copies were pressed.

[Avenger]

I prefer to never get into a discussion with you. I enjoy beating my head against a brick wall, that is more fun.

Its an Avenger statement, they don't always have to make sense, usually they don't....

Thanks for the extremely detailed, in-depth insight into the topic. I'm thought for sure as someone that formerly ran a label you would have had more to add on the subject...

I'm capable of civil conversation but I'm starting to think that you aren't. If I go back to at least the last couple years of any time you referenced a post of mine it's always a pissing contest. That aside, I'm seriously interested to see what guys that have/do run labels think of this. It doesn't have to be an argument regarding my opinion.

[nightsblood]

As was already stated, I said what SHOULD be the case, not what is currently happening. If people want to support these tools and put big bucks into the pockets of those that make this shit then that’s their prerogative but in my opinion they are complete idiots with a serious lack of logic.

And there's your problem- you think anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is "a complete idiot". It's the same ol' story- "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is WRONG WRONG WRONG". Such a childish mentality.

Again, you need to stop with the assumptions. Yeah, the guy is an asshole for putting this stuff out on a format that has already seen an official release but that doesn’t necessarily mean that his “limited to 10 copies” statement isn’t true.

That's hilarious, you call him an "asshole" for being a rip-off artist and then you start defending his honesty IN THE SAME SENTENCE. I mean seriously, do you even read the shit that you write? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

Maybe he’s trying to be one of the “old boot” guys that you seem to have respect for

Who's making assumptions now? Where have I EVER said I have respect for ANY bootleggers? My previous post said, "...honest bootlegger? There's an oxymoron". Do you even read any of the posts people make, or do you just glance at the small words and them make up a response?

Until you can show me more then 10 auctions for the same item, I’m going to think your just being pretentious for the sake of bashing this guy because his bootlegs aren’t 25 years old.

OK, let me explain all the things wrong with that statement:
1- how the fuck am I being pretentious? Do you even know what the word means? Obviously not. Stick to small words- the big ones seem to give you trouble.
2- I don't give a flying shit how old his boots are. I stated above, "I rarely ever buy boots- I might have a dozen total. I've paid > $50 for a boot maybe once, and I rarely pay more than $25 for one". Now how the hell do you take that information and decide that I'm somehow supporting old bootlegs? Or any bootlegs? Here's a helpful tip- READ before you REPLY.
I am going to explain the point ONE MORE TIME b/c you obviously do not get it:
Why
pay
lots
for
a
boot
when
you
aren't
sure
it
is
rare?
those words should be small enough that even you can figure them out.

New boots, old boots, it makes no difference. It’s still unofficial and still filling the pockets of people that want to make a profit off of the bands work regardless how many copies were pressed.

And once again, you prove that YOU DO NOT GET THE POINT. This conversation was NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER about the 'fairness' of boots. But all you keep saying over and over and over is, "boots are bad, boots are bad, boots are bad, boots are bad" like a fucking parrot. Oh wait, but weren't you the one saying labels and bands should not gripe about boots if they don't keep their titles in press all the time?

Now let me make a new point:
-It's fine if you think no one should pay more than peanuts for a boot.
-It's fine if you believe everything a bootlegger says in his auctions.
-It's fine if you don't like boots.
-I agree with you on some of these points, not so much on others, and I'm fine with that- we're each entitled to our own opinions. No problem there.
-But what I do have a problem with is that you are apparently in-fucking-capable of seeing even the most basic point in a conversation. No matter how clear the point is made, no matter how small the words are that I and others use to make a point, you completely and utterly miss it. I don't know WHAT your problem is- maybe English isn't your first language, maybe you just post dumb shit like a troll to piss people off, maybe you're too fucking stupid to understand what you read here.... I don't know and I no longer care. I cannot stand idiots who make up dumb-ass replies that clearly have nothing to do with the point and that clearly misrepresent the points that others have already made. If I want to talk to something that doesn't understand me and can't form an intelligent reply, I'll go talk to my pets, I don't expect them to be able to form a logical reply to me. So piss off you dumb-ass moron, you're a fucking laughingstock around here.
Hopefully even you can get THAT point.

[Glockose]

BEST THREAD EVER!!!!!

[Prowler]

The bootlegger dude probably has pressed 300-500 vinyls and now just prints "jackets"

You're prohably right. If he's contact to that brazilian pressing plant that only cares about if you pay them, then he can press whatever bootleg he want in whatever color he want.

[Prowler]

Again, you need to stop with the assumptions. Yeah, the guy is an asshole for putting this stuff out on a format that has already seen an official release but that doesn’t necessarily mean that his “limited to 10 copies” statement isn’t true.

That's hilarious, you call him an "asshole" for being a rip-off artist and then you start defending his honesty IN THE SAME SENTENCE. I mean seriously, do you even read the shit that you write? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

That statement wasn't that stupid, sorry. He just said the guy is an asshole for doing bootlegs but it could be possible that he's indeed just made 10 copies. Noone can prove the contrary. As I said earlier, it is possible to just press a single copy of vinyl via ebay for a special price so he could have made just 10 copies for 200 Euros and while he's selling them for 66 $ a piece he's a nice profit to expect. There's also a private garage pressing "plant" in New Zealand who's doing smallest editions for home use and even shapes. We're not living in the 80's anymore, everything is possible nowadays ... blame the internet!

[doomedplanet]

?? why blame he internet? It has been possible to make one-off record for basically as long as records have existed (probably slight exaggeration, but not much.). My grandpa made a few in his living room in the 40's-50's. these machines and similar have existed for a long time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhnQEogFI4k

dub plates for DJ use elevated it to a higher lever in the last decades.

This "plant" you mention is one of many that exist around the world.

<snip>
As I said earlier, it is possible to just press a single copy of vinyl There's also a private garage pressing "plant" in New Zealand who's doing smallest editions for home use and even shapes. We're not living in the 80's anymore, everything is possible nowadays ... blame the internet!

[Prowler]

?? why blame he internet? It has been possible to make one-off record for basically as long as records have existed (probably slight exaggeration, but not much.). My grandpa made a few in his living room in the 40's-50's. these machines and similar have existed for a long time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhnQEogFI4k

dub plates for DJ use elevated it to a higher lever in the last decades.

This "plant" you mention is one of many that exist around the world.

<snip>
As I said earlier, it is possible to just press a single copy of vinyl There's also a private garage pressing "plant" in New Zealand who's doing smallest editions for home use and even shapes. We're not living in the 80's anymore, everything is possible nowadays ... blame the internet!

I know, I friend of mine was looking for a vinyl press too and he even found one for sale in Canada but he said it would be problematic to get the masters as the pressing plant near his place won't help him with providing them.

[doomedplanet]

well these cuts are not 'pressed' so I'm not sure exactly what your friend is searching for, the blanks for 1-off dubs or for lacquers for cutting masters? He bought a cutting machine? Of course no pressing plan is going to randomly help someone calling up, they are busy running their business. Best for him to do the research on his own.
Anyway there are various sources for the master blanks, there is a whole forum focused on the art of cutting records:
http://lathetrolls.phpbbweb.com/lathetrolls.html

I know, I friend of mine was looking for a vinyl press too and he even found one for sale in Canada but he said it would be problematic to get the masters as the pressing plant near his place won't help him with providing them.

[Prowler]

well these cuts are not 'pressed' so I'm not sure exactly what your friend is searching for, the blanks for 1-off dubs or for lacquers for cutting masters? He bought a cutting machine? Of course no pressing plan is going to randomly help someone calling up, they are busy running their business. Best for him to do the research on his own.
Anyway there are various sources for the master blanks, there is a whole forum focused on the art of cutting records:
http://lathetrolls.phpbbweb.com/lathetrolls.html

I know, I friend of mine was looking for a vinyl press too and he even found one for sale in Canada but he said it would be problematic to get the masters as the pressing plant near his place won't help him with providing them.

Nah, he told me his plans already more than 10 years ago that's why I said "he was". He's cut down his plan long time ago as the shipping costs for the machine itself from Canada to Europe had been "drastic"! The idea itself was quite cool I thought back then ... but all the circumstances connected with the manufacturing of records in your garage and what's all needed wasn't.

[Avenger]

As was already stated, I said what SHOULD be the case, not what is currently happening. If people want to support these tools and put big bucks into the pockets of those that make this shit then that’s their prerogative but in my opinion they are complete idiots with a serious lack of logic.

And there's your problem- you think anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is "a complete idiot". It's the same ol' story- "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is WRONG WRONG WRONG". Such a childish mentality.

Again, you need to stop with the assumptions. Yeah, the guy is an asshole for putting this stuff out on a format that has already seen an official release but that doesn’t necessarily mean that his “limited to 10 copies” statement isn’t true.

That's hilarious, you call him an "asshole" for being a rip-off artist and then you start defending his honesty IN THE SAME SENTENCE. I mean seriously, do you even read the shit that you write? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

Maybe he’s trying to be one of the “old boot” guys that you seem to have respect for

Who's making assumptions now? Where have I EVER said I have respect for ANY bootleggers? My previous post said, "...honest bootlegger? There's an oxymoron". Do you even read any of the posts people make, or do you just glance at the small words and them make up a response?

Until you can show me more then 10 auctions for the same item, I’m going to think your just being pretentious for the sake of bashing this guy because his bootlegs aren’t 25 years old.

OK, let me explain all the things wrong with that statement:
1- how the fuck am I being pretentious? Do you even know what the word means? Obviously not. Stick to small words- the big ones seem to give you trouble.
2- I don't give a flying shit how old his boots are. I stated above, "I rarely ever buy boots- I might have a dozen total. I've paid > $50 for a boot maybe once, and I rarely pay more than $25 for one". Now how the hell do you take that information and decide that I'm somehow supporting old bootlegs? Or any bootlegs? Here's a helpful tip- READ before you REPLY.
I am going to explain the point ONE MORE TIME b/c you obviously do not get it:
Why
pay
lots
for
a
boot
when
you
aren't
sure
it
is
rare?
those words should be small enough that even you can figure them out.

New boots, old boots, it makes no difference. It’s still unofficial and still filling the pockets of people that want to make a profit off of the bands work regardless how many copies were pressed.

And once again, you prove that YOU DO NOT GET THE POINT. This conversation was NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER about the 'fairness' of boots. But all you keep saying over and over and over is, "boots are bad, boots are bad, boots are bad, boots are bad" like a fucking parrot. Oh wait, but weren't you the one saying labels and bands should not gripe about boots if they don't keep their titles in press all the time?

Now let me make a new point:
-It's fine if you think no one should pay more than peanuts for a boot.
-It's fine if you believe everything a bootlegger says in his auctions.
-It's fine if you don't like boots.
-I agree with you on some of these points, not so much on others, and I'm fine with that- we're each entitled to our own opinions. No problem there.
-But what I do have a problem with is that you are apparently in-fucking-capable of seeing even the most basic point in a conversation. No matter how clear the point is made, no matter how small the words are that I and others use to make a point, you completely and utterly miss it. I don't know WHAT your problem is- maybe English isn't your first language, maybe you just post dumb shit like a troll to piss people off, maybe you're too fucking stupid to understand what you read here.... I don't know and I no longer care. I cannot stand idiots who make up dumb-ass replies that clearly have nothing to do with the point and that clearly misrepresent the points that others have already made. If I want to talk to something that doesn't understand me and can't form an intelligent reply, I'll go talk to my pets, I don't expect them to be able to form a logical reply to me. So piss off you dumb-ass moron, you're a fucking laughingstock around here.
Hopefully even you can get THAT point.

The difference between you and I is that you base your opinions on assumptions which makes you PRETENTIOUS. I know down in the south English has been run through the mud so many times over that you guys have a hard time understanding real forms of the language but I don’t share this problem. You can scream and shout and call names like a child but you are not getting your point across any better. I realize that you have been upset by words on the internet and obviously have no self control but you need to learn to look at an argument in a calm manner and then maybe you will be more successful in trying to convince me that you actually have a valid point here.

I look at situations based only on the facts.

Fact – This person is selling an unofficial pressing.

Fact – This person is asking a high price for it.

Fact – Bidders are willing to pay high prices for these unofficial pressings.

Non-fact – This person has made more then 10 pressings.

When you can prove your statement then that makes it true and therefore has bearing in an argument.

Now that you have learned the basics to forming a valid argument, we can perhaps continue this in a civil matter.


This comes down to these simple questions:

Why does it matter if it’s 25 years old or 25 days old?

Why does it matter if it was pressed in 10 copies or 10,000 copies?

In the end it’s still a bootleg.

Yes, I have said in the past that bootlegs are created to fuel a demand for out of print items but this doesn’t make it right or mean that these bootlegs should be worth lots of money.

I’m not protecting or trying to justify any actions here. In fact, I sent the guy several messages on ebay laughing at him for selling these bootlegs. I just cannot wrap my head around why you are trying to tell me that some bootlegs are good and some are bad. It can only be one or the other.

[MassOfKthulu]

DO NOT
DO NOT!
FEED THE FUCKING TROLL

[Fils Du Metal]

DO NOT
DO NOT!
FEED THE FUCKING TROLL

please explain this throwout? Who is a fucking troll?