Money For Nothing & Music For Free

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MEXDefenderOfSteel
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Post by MEXDefenderOfSteel »

stormspell wrote:
Which brings another interesting point: One of my bigger sellers have been LICH KING - originally a one-man studio project which haven't even played live until recently. Would I have been able to sell so many copies of the first two albums if it wasnt for the aggressive self-promotion of Tom Martin on every online venue possible with hooking fans with free mp3s and such? I really dont think so... Food for thought.
from a HM musician point of view, i totally agree and support this actions
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Cochino
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Post by Cochino »

I agree 100% with what stormspell just said. The people I know who download and don't buy didn't even buy before being able to download, and those who used to buy they still do, and even more since they know more bands thanks to mp3s (as I've mentioned, one of them even owns a label now, and distributes bands he knows thanks to mp3s, although he will deny it and say mp3s are for posers :roll: . I know that many of those who talk crap about filesharing download mp3s like most people do, and sometimes even ask for links through pms).
I just want to make this clear: I'm not against labels at all. I support them every time I can and as I said, although I don't have a real label, I've released and am distributing a tape on my own so I can see your side of things. I just think you're getting all wrong if you think that you sell less records because of mp3s.
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Glockose
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Post by Glockose »

stormspell wrote: Howdy,

Honestly I didn't want to get involved in this thread as it is such a broad and complicated issue and my English is not so good to let me express my thoughts clearly in the way I'd like. So here is an abbreviated version of my position on this issue:

In general I try to be positive and not to let such things bother me. The reason is, ALL new albums end up being ripped off and uploaded on the net as soon as the release is out, if not sooner. This is the nature of the beast.
I just prefer to think that I do cater to that small part of the population which would make the effort to buy it if they like it. So from that stand point I do not think the free downloads hurt my sales much. I've said it many times before, and I do mean it when I say there are fans which would find a way to support a band/label, and there are leechers which would not buy and find an excuse even if we start selling it for $1.00, so it is all irrelevant in my opinion. So if we take the old saying "the dogs are barking and the caravan is moving", to paraphrase it accordingly: the leechers are downloading, and the business is moving on...

All those corporate businesses and organizations which cry wolf and try to milk every cent from every sound sample and police the internet - crying out loud and counting "loss of profit" at every free download, they are way too optimistic in my opinion. Those downloads thrive coz they are free, charge money for 'em and they'll be gone in a flash.

Same with the samples - how many of you would browse myspace in search of new bands if you got charged $0.99 every time you check a tune? Or have to pay a subscription fee to use youtube? It just wont work and there wouldnt be much profit to gain from it. The only thing would be, people would not be familiar with many of the bands they are now.

Which brings another interesting point: One of my bigger sellers have been LICH KING - originally a one-man studio project which haven't even played live until recently. Would I have been able to sell so many copies of the first two albums if it wasnt for the aggressive self-promotion of Tom Martin on every online venue possible with hooking fans with free mp3s and such? I really dont think so... Food for thought.
Thanks for the nice reply.
Your English was fine.

Nice to have you back around these parts.
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rumblefist
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Post by rumblefist »

Sometimes there's interesting bands that have only "mp3" to sell .
Their stuff isn't available to buy in any album because it wasn't released in any form privately or by any label.
Just for example :

Enticer (Australia) - Unreleased Album (1991)
Metalworks (US) - Unfinished Business (2009) (80's recordings )
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lunaboy
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Post by lunaboy »

rumblefist wrote:Sometimes there's interesting bands that have only "mp3" to sell .
Their stuff isn't available to buy in any album because it wasn't released in any form privately or by any label.
Just for example :

Enticer (Australia) - Unreleased Album (1991)
Metalworks (US) - Unfinished Business (2009) (80's recordings )
Funny thing is there's no MP3s of these albums on blogspots :).I think it just shows how "strange" situation is.People who bought MP3s do not share it.I'm sure if these were available on CD these already were posted somewhere.
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rumblefist
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Post by rumblefist »

Not strange to me Luna, with the type of bloggers nowadays...
If i had a Blog i would do it in a personal way with my own rips and i would try it to make it different from other sites.
What happens today is that most bloggers are just stealing from everywhere and post links like there's no tomorrow...In fact they are just a kind of "Best Of" . You can notice it well when bloggers post "Compilations" of incomplete 3 minutes samples from Ebay.
Even MA submitters take infos that sellers add and submit it ...just to have a higher rank. This is pathetic. I don't understand it : now, who needs a metal rank ? Not me for sure.
So, i tend to respect anyone who has a good collection but never rips never upload never share. I can't call it greed really.
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DaN
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Post by DaN »

So many interresting subjects to comment about here I'm not sure where to start...

First off:
If you're planning to reissue a rare/unknown 80's Metal recording on your label, a pre-existing mp3-buzz of said recording will be to your advantage - of this I'm 99% sure. Why? Because fans of this very narrow music is still one of the most record-buying/collector-prone folks around these days, and them having listened to some X-gen mp3 copies of the same music won't discourage them from grabbing a superior, physical copy of the music.

Besides, once your previously-unheard re-issue is out on the market, it WILL get ripped & uploaded on the web sooner rather than later anyway. sad but true :( ...which in turn puts it back at Square 1 together with those old "heard it before" mp3s..
nightsblood wrote:example- last record show I was at, some guys were gawking at a dealer who had the Valhalla EP for sale at $150. They'd never heard of it; so they both whipped out i-phones, dialed up Metal Archives, and in less than 2 minutes they knew how long it was, read a review of it, and were loading up popsike to see if the price was fair. They then d/l'ed it to see if it was any good. Neither guy bought it. At that point, the record had been stripped of its allure. They learned everything about it and downloaded a copy in a few minutes; at that point, most people are not gonna attach much value to the physical item. The dealer and I just exchanged sad looks once they wandered off.
Great cautionary tale about the state of affairs nowdays. BUT.. there's at least one upside to this everything-is-available-everywhere-phenomenon of late, and maybe others have noticed this "paradigm shift" as well: Compared to maybe 10 years ago, obscure & unknown Metal recordings are getting appreciated more on musical merits rather than rarity & cvlt cover art than before - to simplify: The Underrated have conquered the Overrated! Can I have a 'yay internet!' please? No? OK, sorry...
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Cochino
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Post by Cochino »

DaN wrote: The Underrated have conquered the Overrated! Can I have a 'yay internet!' please? No? OK, sorry...
I absolutely agree about this. I guess the amount of people wasting tons of money in a über-rare-obscure-unknown-NWOBHM 7" that turned out to be nothing but pub rock with some hard guitars (if anything) has also diminished.
Besides, without the internet I wouldn't have know any of you guys!!!
*group hug*
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nightsblood
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Post by nightsblood »

Good point DaN and Coch- if you buy a record these days with no idea what it sounds like, well, you didn't try very hard to find out what it sounds like! :) And yes, that's a huge upside to mp3s/the Internet. I spent way too much money buying way too many crappy records during the '90s b/c there was no other way for me to find out if they were good or crap. This plays a big role in why I'm so picky and buy so little now; for at least 10 years I had hundreds and hundreds of sub-par records pile up. I've finally purged most of that stuff out of my collection, and I REALLY don't want more lame stuff creeping back onto the shelves. I'll take my current, small collection full of stuff I really like over my old, large collection full of stuff I didn't care for much.
"I'm sorry Sam, we had real chemistry. But like a monkey on the sun, our love was too hot to live"
-Becky
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