Anyone Familiar with this dealer?

[Stormspell]

I have LOST 5 packages in the mail in all this time (4 Greece, 1 Japan)

You sent a registered package and it got lost or you sent it unregistered and the buyer said he never received it? The latter can make you suspicious of his integrity, but in the first case it is surely not the buyer who's responsible. Postal services have been slightly improved the last years, but they used to suck a hell of a lot a decade before or so...

To add my 2 cents here. I had two eBay occasions when Greek buyers complained how steep registration/EMS prices are and passionately assured me how SECURE their postal service is, how they never in their live have not lost a package, etc. Then after I relented and send their packages cheaper way... WHAM! Both issued "item not received" paypal chargebacks...

As a result now ALL Greek buyers pay registration/trackable Express EMS shipping, or no deal.

-----

Another beef I had with buyers from Greece only was a bizarre occurrence in which a buyer will ask to pay via Western Union. Then instead of sending me the $X amount, they would send me $Y, where $Y = significantly less than X$. And when I ask whats going on they would say "Western Union seemed to have higher conversion rates, so I converted my Euros using the bank rate and sent you the adjusted amount..." - very cheap way of trying to pass undesirable fees to seller I'd say... this has happened to me 3 times so far, all 3 from Greek buyers only.

[nightsblood]

After realizing that Greg's selling from 2 accounts (liegelord7 and sabbat83) and apparently switched from one to the other recently after having some neg and neutral feedback pile up in the liegelord7 account, I decided not to buy from him. I would have liked to have the record, but it's not the last copy on earth and frankly I don't want it bad enough to risk putting up with slow shipments and potentially risky sellers. I'll wait for a seller I feel more confident buying from.
Helm- interesting post! Your description of greeks not giving a crap about others fits my (limited) experiences very well. I've had to deal w/ a few greeks in my profession and they tend to treat people around them like crap, acting as though they can do whatever they want without repercussions. Not pleasant to deal with at all.

[ION BRITTON]

I've had to deal w/ a few greeks in my profession and they tend to treat people around them like crap, acting as though they can do whatever they want without repercussions. Not pleasant to deal with at all.

Well, from my experience there are lots of people worldwide who don't give shit about anything or anyone and treat others like they are subhumans, greeks are not the only ''priviledged'', what bothers me more though with them is that their inconsiderateness has a very aggressive and harmful tone.

[Helm]

That comes from deeply ingrained self-loathing, I think. Greeks will treat other people sometimes extra-shit because that's how they feel about themselves also. If you can drag other people in the pool of shit, then you don't feel so lonely in there.

I am sure there's many of this type of people I describe in other parts of the world. Greeks are just prominent rip-offs in the HM trading field because Greeks also love HM a lot! We have had a very strong traditional Heavy Metal core for a long time. It would not be an exaggeration to say that I've met people who have sold their soul for Heavy Metal, here in Greece. Sadly this isn't the same thing as vowing to be a decent human being at all times, if you get my meaning.

[Korgüll]

Helm, do you live in Greece or the US??
Sorry, I'm confused? I thought you lived in the US or are American living in Greece???

[beerandjesus]

But what I, and then glock-, were more interested in is how and why did greeks get such a bad rep when it comes to dealing in metal?

Well I am not in my late thirties and I never did any trading but if you want my opinion as a greek: Greece had come out of a civil war and a very difficult in economical terms period which was pockmarked by constant internal political bickering just mere decades before today. This isn't something new or terribly specific to Greece, we could for example compare to newly found post Soviet Bloc countries. I am sure they scammed their way through as much as they could for the next decade after the fall of the union until they learned how the rest of the world works. It was a matter of survival. The big difference is that in Greece people's self-respect as citizens, as workers, as political entities was and is constantly chipped away through a wall of govermental corruption so dense you can't cut through it with a peumatic drill. The media is putrid and sickening, if you turn on the television here it will dehumanize you in a matter of weeks. You cannot easily be allowed to live in decency in Greece. Not as a worker and not as a human being. This teaches Greeks to not be honest people just to get by, it teaches them to hate each other and ultimately themselves. This is a generalization but I'm sure you can understand where I'm going with it. In Greece we even have a saying that captures this particular mentality well, it roughly translates to "eat what you can, drink what you can, and fuck what you can" with no regard to the future or to common decency, and then you die.

Of course not everybody is like this, but perhaps this explains why wherever there is a strong honor system in place for trading or whatnot, wherever there are easily exploitable loopholes to get shit you didn't pay for through, Greeks will write the manual on how to do it, early and efficiently. It isn't so much anymore about survival and because money is sparse (not that it isn't, but I know a lot of people with expensive tastes like record collecting that have more money than brains) but because we are programmed to not give a shit about others. The only way for the Greek people to get over this particular failing of theirs is for an enduring shift in political climate that will allow for the people to learn again to live with decent means, make honest livings and not be systematically torn down by the system and ultimately by each other.

Of course if I realize this as a Greek then many other Greeks do also, so obviously while I can't fault you guys for being careful around Greek traders, do keep in mind you might be dealing with a honest one in any case, until and if the opposite is proven.

This is VERY interesting, not only in the context of this thread, but also because it begins to explain why there is so much NSBM in Greece--something I've wondered about for quite a while.

By the way, I LOVE dealing with Greeks--I just hate dealing with the postal system over there! And Steel Legacy is pretty much my favorite vinyl label in the world.

[Nightlock]

About Greg, He's always been good to me in the past but the order I just bought from him that turned up missing a t shirt I paid for. Lets hope he's willing to send it again.

[Avenger]

I don't give a shit how you are raised, how corrupt your government is or if it's socially acceptable in the country you live in, stealing is wrong, period.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I personally work hard for my money and when I pay for something I expect that it:

#1. Arrives.
#2. Does not take 6 months to come.
#3. Is as described.

Theft is theft. There is no excuse. The way I see it, if the lazy, cowardly, assholes put the same amount of effort into actually working for what they have instead of trying to scam every free dime they possibly can, they could probably make something of themselves and the world, along with the Metal sale/trading scene would be a much better place.

That's really just a huge cop-out as far as I'm concerned.

[ION BRITTON]

We are not trying to find excuses and defend the lame dealers/traders of Greece here, we are just trying to find out why those problems are happening more often with greeks and see how their social/political background can influence their activities.

[Glockose]

But what I, and then glock-, were more interested in is how and why did greeks get such a bad rep when it comes to dealing in metal?

Well I am not in my late thirties and I never did any trading but if you want my opinion as a greek: Greece had come out of a civil war and a very difficult in economical terms period which was pockmarked by constant internal political bickering just mere decades before today. This isn't something new or terribly specific to Greece, we could for example compare to newly found post Soviet Bloc countries. I am sure they scammed their way through as much as they could for the next decade after the fall of the union until they learned how the rest of the world works. It was a matter of survival. The big difference is that in Greece people's self-respect as citizens, as workers, as political entities was and is constantly chipped away through a wall of govermental corruption so dense you can't cut through it with a peumatic drill. The media is putrid and sickening, if you turn on the television here it will dehumanize you in a matter of weeks. You cannot easily be allowed to live in decency in Greece. Not as a worker and not as a human being. This teaches Greeks to not be honest people just to get by, it teaches them to hate each other and ultimately themselves. This is a generalization but I'm sure you can understand where I'm going with it. In Greece we even have a saying that captures this particular mentality well, it roughly translates to "eat what you can, drink what you can, and fuck what you can" with no regard to the future or to common decency, and then you die.

Of course not everybody is like this, but perhaps this explains why wherever there is a strong honor system in place for trading or whatnot, wherever there are easily exploitable loopholes to get shit you didn't pay for through, Greeks will write the manual on how to do it, early and efficiently. It isn't so much anymore about survival and because money is sparse (not that it isn't, but I know a lot of people with expensive tastes like record collecting that have more money than brains) but because we are programmed to not give a shit about others. The only way for the Greek people to get over this particular failing of theirs is for an enduring shift in political climate that will allow for the people to learn again to live with decent means, make honest livings and not be systematically torn down by the system and ultimately by each other.

Of course if I realize this as a Greek then many other Greeks do also, so obviously while I can't fault you guys for being careful around Greek traders, do keep in mind you might be dealing with a honest one in any case, until and if the opposite is proven.

Thank you for this. Very insightful
And maybe what I was looking for in an answer to my question

[MassOfKthulu]

That pretty much covers it,i can only differentiate from what Helm wrote in that i dont hold Greeks as trying to lure others in their shit to not feel underpriviledged or something,we are simply an arrogant race thats how i ld put it.
And considering population ratios,Greece has by far the most devoted 80s metal scene on the planet.How's this for arrogance,haha

[nightsblood]

Ion- sure, there are jerks everywhere. The greeks I've dealt w/ in my profession stand out b/c most jerks in my line of work are the type who smile to your face then stab you in the back. The greeks, however, are more like stab you in the face, stab you in the back, throw you in the mud and spit on you. Their "I am so great and you aren't worth the mud caked in the bottom of my shoes" mentality is very different from most of the other jerks I've come across in the field

[ION BRITTON]

Their "I am so great and you aren't worth the mud caked in the bottom of my shoes" mentality is very different from most of the other jerks I've come across in the field

The arrogance massofkthulu was talking about.

I understand what you're saying nightsblood, i have to deal with such attitude on daily basis and in a way that was what i was implying before by saying that greeks' attitude has also a harmful tone.

[GJ]

Am I the only one feeling a bit sad reading this thread?

@ Avenger: I totally agree with you. There may be explanations but there is no excuse. Stealing food and clothes if you're hungry and cold may be excusable sometimes - stealing money and records from fellow metalheads is just stupid!

@ Helm, Ion B-n and all the other (seemingly ) decent greeks around here: You have my sympathy and I wish you the best for the sake of our children. Though I still sort of hope that your tounges have been placed firmly in cheek throughout this discussion and that this blue-eyed (well, actually they are both brown and green, I guess) naive swede just failed to see the irony.

[Avenger]

We are not trying to find excuses and defend the lame dealers/traders of Greece here, we are just trying to find out why those problems are happening more often with greeks and see how their social/political background can influence their activities.

There is no good reason.

Plain and simple in my mind.