Still Sealed?

[Glockose]

I tell people:
"Some people are Drug addicts, some are Alcoholics, I collect"

I truly believe what some people have is an addiction. "I have this"
It has NOTHING to do with Metal.
As some know I don't REALLY collect Metal.


But here is a better question.
How many of you COLLECT something else (not Metal)?
What do you collect?

see other thread...........

[Keir]

You're half right Helm. I'm not a collector and I don't share that vision of music. But is not like I don't understand it, is just that I don't share it and I would discuss it. I mean, collections are speculations. I go to art mainly to get away from every day life, and I see inserting the market laws in it as corrupting this holy place for me.

Well, see, I do consider myself a collector but speculation has absolutely 0 to do with it. It is a sort of addiction like glockose says I guess. I've collected a lot of different things over the years, but finally settled on metal because it's such a huge part of my life and it just seemed right.

[Helm]

wait a minute, why are you speaking so general? Well, see, I don't believe in the word "collector"with the way you mean it, when we speak about Metal...that word doesn't work form me, that is ideal for stamps as said before, or other things, but when we speak about METAL this word doesn't fit imo. You see, there's love for what you're doing, and if you believe truly in that, with all of your heart, you finally win!

I don't think there is too much risk in saying that people that collect stamps or toys or miniatures similarly have a very strong love for their items. I don't think also that they believe they're losers or anything like that. My statement wasn't of condemnation, it was more of a 'I throw my hands into the air, I don' know why!'.

Don't try to use labels, just try to see trough someone's mind, if you want to understand him/her. People may have various motives and desires, different beliefs, different reactions, some are fake, and some others authentic.

I agree, and yeah I am trying to understand other people. I think I might be missing a gene though when it comes to this sort of collection-need as I don't, and have never collected anything (not just in music, anything at all) and thus I am not first-hand familiar with the enjoyment from having the items you desire in good condition and safely protected in some part of your house. I live in a house with two hardcore collectors (my dad collects painted historical miniatures, and my brother small cars of a specific ratio) and as you may understand it has been a priority in my life to try to understand them. I have not managed thus far to see where their enjoyment comes from in these things.

Note that I didn't say anything about speculation and trade-market. I am prepared - and much willing actually - to admit that the collector mindset isn't initially speculative. They need their items for themselves. It is as if there's an 'astral library' in their head that is missing these items and when they finally find one and put it in its pre-directed place, they feel euphoria. I really have never experienced this.

[BlackStele]

look Helm, I don't think it's proper to expand this conversation here, cause some people may get me wrong, I will say only this: I don't connect Metal with material things such as stamps, books, or whatever, I'm not afraid of this word"collecting", but I would use it ONLY for MATERIAL things, Metal is sth else, above all..

[Glockose]

wait a minute, why are you speaking so general? Well, see, I don't believe in the word "collector"with the way you mean it, when we speak about Metal...that word doesn't work form me, that is ideal for stamps as said before, or other things, but when we speak about METAL this word doesn't fit imo. You see, there's love for what you're doing, and if you believe truly in that, with all of your heart, you finally win!

I don't think there is too much risk in saying that people that collect stamps or toys or miniatures similarly have a very strong love for their items. I don't think also that they believe they're losers or anything like that. My statement wasn't of condemnation, it was more of a 'I throw my hands into the air, I don' know why!'.

Don't try to use labels, just try to see trough someone's mind, if you want to understand him/her. People may have various motives and desires, different beliefs, different reactions, some are fake, and some others authentic.

I agree, and yeah I am trying to understand other people. I think I might be missing a gene though when it comes to this sort of collection-need as I don't, and have never collected anything (not just in music, anything at all) and thus I am not first-hand familiar with the enjoyment from having the items you desire in good condition and safely protected in some part of your house. I live in a house with two hardcore collectors (my dad collects painted historical miniatures, and my brother small cars of a specific ratio) and as you may understand it has been a priority in my life to try to understand them. I have not managed thus far to see where their enjoyment comes from in these things.

Note that I didn't say anything about speculation and trade-market. I am prepared - and much willing actually - to admit that the collector mindset isn't initially speculative. They need their items for themselves. It is as if there's an 'astral library' in their head that is missing these items and when they finally find one and put it in its pre-directed place, they feel euphoria. I really have never experienced this.

You are very lucky
As I stated before a TRUE HARDCORE COLLECTOR is an addict.
And being an Addict for ANYTHING is not good for your health
But in you mind it is needed..

[BlackStele]

well, well..ok, addict with the good meaning ofcurse, is a fine word for me, I will keep it, haha!

[Helm]

look Helm, I don't think it's proper to expand this conversation here, cause some people may get me wrong, I will say only this: I don't connect Metal with material things such as stamps, books, or whatever, I'm not afraid of this word"collecting", but I would use it ONLY for MATERIAL things, Metal is sth else, above all..

The Corroseum seems to be a very friendly place, but I respect it if you'd rather not have this discussion. If you will, a last question on my part: if the Metal is not material, then why does the Paradox vinyl stay tucked in its seal? Isn't it a piece of metal music foremost? I do not really understand the distinction you're making. I mean, I do, I don't care about the material within where the music I love resides as much as I care for the music itself, but then I don't buy extremely expensive vinyl and keep it sealed.

glockose, it gets my family very uncomfortable when I posit that their collections might be even partly the result of some mental incapacity at work. As I am trying to make bridges with people and understand them, not clinically diagnose them or whatever (I am no doctor) I try not to bring this up too much, and never directly.

[Piotr Sargnagel]

addictive personalities often don't like to be told that their addiction is obvious! But aren't we all here on this forum addicted to music, have to hear it, have to have it around all the time?

[Helm]

An addiction requires pathological symptoms would the object of addiction removed for prolonged periods of times though. I do not get the shakes if I don't listen to HM for a week or a month.

[BlackStele]

look Helm, I don't think it's proper to expand this conversation here, cause some people may get me wrong, I will say only this: I don't connect Metal with material things such as stamps, books, or whatever, I'm not afraid of this word"collecting", but I would use it ONLY for MATERIAL things, Metal is sth else, above all..

The Corroseum seems to be a very friendly place, but I respect it if you'd rather not have this discussion. If you will, a last question on my part: if the Metal is not material, then why does the Paradox vinyl stay tucked in its seal? Isn't it a piece of metal music foremost? I do not really understand the distinction you're making. I mean, I do, I don't care about the material within where the music I love resides as much as I care for the music itself, but then I don't buy extremely expensive vinyl and keep it sealed.

glockose, it gets my family very uncomfortable when I posit that their collections might be even partly the result of some mental incapacity at work. As I am trying to make bridges with people and understand them, not clinically diagnose them or whatever (I am no doctor) I try not to bring this up too much, and never directly.

I understand that it is hard for you to understand my point...I will try to explain it more, hoping that there won't be any thorn in my flesh( I doubt bout that anyway..) I see your good intention, so that doesn't go for you. So, what defines the value of a record at last? Its music, its rarity, its age, what? Choose whatever you want and go further. I always "estimate" a record keeping in mind the first factor, and yes my adoration goes beyond the sealed souless vinyl...for me it represents some part of myself, sth I adore, how can I get you into my thought..it's really hard...it's a "symbol", if I can use this word, a way to express my love for the art that comes out from Metal if you want, damn I will be burned at the stake for this statement, I know it...

[Piotr Sargnagel]

@ Helm: Would there be other symptoms though? Ah no, you're probably right, addiction is a strong word to use but there is something obsessive here to be sure..

[Helm]

So, what defines the value of a record at last? Its music, its rarity, its age, what?

The value as in money? All these things I'd guess. I have never paid more than 20 euros for a cd or record so I wouldn't know for sure how that side of things works.

The value for me, emotionally and intellectually? The passion, the honesty and the vision of the band in display on their recording. It can be for free in 2008 on myspace and it can be in a sealed vinyl that costs 1000 dollars in 1981 but these are the things that define the quality of a release for me, as far as HM goes.

Choose whatever you want and go further. I always "estimate" a record keeping in mind the first factor, and yes my adoration goes beyond the sealed souless vinyl...

I never suggested otherwise. But is there metal music so awesome that it should sell for 1000 euros a piece? Isn't HM a λαικό type of music in that it should be available for cheap for all those that want to listen to it? Awaken the Guardian can be bought for 10 euros, and it's 100 times as great as the Paradoxx thing that goes at that exorbitant price, right? I suspect am missing something in this whole thing.

for me it represents some part of myself, sth I adore, how can I get you into my thought..it's really hard...it's a "symbol", if I can use this word, a way to express my love for the art that comes out from Metal if you want, damn I will be burned at the stake for this statement, I know it...

I understand that very well, though. How you'd treat a symbol of good things, good reflections of yourself is very important. I have vinyl and cds put on my wall or in prominent places in my room too, they're totems, they're crests of my HM faith and I will not take them down for anyone. But I didn't and wouldn't pay great amounts of money for having these records in the first place!

Also another aspect: just how many such 'symbols' should a person have before the pathologic rears its head? This is the important bit, I think.

I don't think anyone will give you a hard time here for your opinions, but it's usually bad luck to say this because that's when some troll pops up to have his way with the discussion, so I'll shut up!

[BlackStele]

I can't understand why you should separate records, what I'm saying, has nothing to do with money or rarity. I have in my collection records that cost 10-20 Euros and I adore them, that goes for the valuable ones also! There's no difference. I can name some really collectable and rare records that mean nothing to me, cause they're crappy, but, on the other hand may someone else find them divine, that's a matter of taste anyway, but here we speak about individuals, who might have sth common: see someone's Visions and Dreams, that might go together with some of their beliefs that will be born from this unique experience. I won't blame someone who focuses only in underground bands for example, I can understand this, I won't blame someone if he's interested only in cheap records, that's his/her right, if we have common the love and the dedication to Metal. The word"symbol" is used metaphorically and it is used to picture the feeling and the memories that a record brings on me . Have you ever felt like being captivated in a web of memories while listening to a record, or even staring at its cover? I know you did..

[great_knuthulhu]

An addiction requires pathological symptoms would the object of addiction removed for prolonged periods of times though. I do not get the shakes if I don't listen to HM for a week or a month.

Not sure about a week, but I would struggle if I couldn't listen to metal for a month. The notion itself is frightening.

Diagnosing others for their collecting is really not a good idea, even if it seems obsessive. People around the world collect all kinds of weird stuff. The definition of pathological addiction usually concentrates around whether or not you're able to function properly socially and at work. If you do, there is no real problem.

[Helm]

I agree on the 'are you able to function properly' point of view, which is why I didn't speak in terms such as addiction etc, I just said there might be some sort of psychological effect going on, nothing crippling.

BlackStele, of course some record covers and such bring me back etc, but they naturally cannot be from records such as the Paradoxx because it costs a fortune, so I would never have it in my posession in the first place, so as for it to have a special place in my heart. Bit of a catch 22.