"DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

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Plantweed
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#46 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:33 pm

Not going to get into a pissing match, but I'm here for civil queries.

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bigfootkit
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#47 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:11 am

ION BRITTON wrote:Haven't read Stark's book, but the one Malc has done and which I do own dates back to the late 90's or early 00's. There was no google at that time, no M-A, no gigabytes of mp3s circulating on the www. I can't compare those circumstances with the situation nowadays. It's also focused on one thing and because of that, it has depth and the author clearly shows he has done his homework like no one ever has done before on the topic. Very few people (if not no one at all) had the knowledge Malc had at that time about NWOBHM. And even then, he does not claim it's 100% complete.
You have more chances to do it right, if you specialize on something and try to stay focused on it. I don't know if I will eventually buy demolition or not, but for the moment allow me to have my doubts about a book that tries to cover the whole 80s demo scene from heavy metal to grind or whatever.


You make a valid point there, with the interconnectedness of information nowadays it would be dishonest or at least unrealistic for anyone to claim to have written any reference book in this day & age entirely by themselves, as all the online sources have absorbed at least some of their info from other sources, either by design or accidentally.
It's one of the reasons why i shelved my own plans to write something substantial about the NWoBHM. I just couldn't be sure, despite years of doing my own research for band bios for the NILOOB blog, that parts of the info i'd gathered hadn't originated from Malc McMillan's book, even though i've never personally read it.
Having said all that, when this 'Demolition' book is published i'll be an enthusiastic purchaser, it's a hell of an undertaking, and i wish you well with it Plantweed.
I cannot, I shall not, I will not obey.
Avenger wrote : I'm not a copyright office nor a judicial entity.

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Avenger
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#48 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:20 am

Plantweed wrote:About 3/4 of the hard, fact-finding research is done: raw data, like release dates, song titles, etc. I still have several hundred zines to go through and cherry-pick for info and critical perspective. Then it’s on to confirming data with band members, and the big one: writing reviews. I’ve done a few hundred, but right now, the demo count is over 13,000, and I have access to about half of those for review. I can do a few a day. We’re hoping for another two years or so, then on to production.


Why is this being done in book format rather then a website with a searchable database?

Granted that the book will never be truly complete, it would make more sense to have it online where updates can take place as information (right, wrong or incomplete) becomes available. It would also find a larger audience with the potential for further information to be brought forward.

A book for a project this ambitious seems pointlessly outdated and would be instantly obsolete. As a graphic designer I'm sure you know a thing or two about building a modern website and backing up the data accordingly.

I’m not trying to discourage you from continuing with this project, hell, anything more broad and consistent than the metal archives would be welcome but I think the money invested in printing costs would be better spent in web hosting for various reasons.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"

stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."

Plantweed
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#49 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:21 pm

Simply put, I love books, as does my publisher. And a designer is different than a web developer. Building websites bores me to tears.

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Khnud
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#50 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:33 pm

Web pages come and go, and information on the internet isn't preserved eternally. Unlike if you write a book. What people might not understand is that many web pages that were alive a few years ago have closed and the information there is mostly lost, whereas we still have most of the published books intact, even back from the invention of the printing press.

Perhaps it's because I work at a legal deposit library, but there's just no arguing against that books are a much more durable medium than web pages. Until most governments mutually agree on e-deposit, which isn't happening any time soon.
Laugh at you in ecstasy, wallow in the gore.
Blast you with their twisted minds, behold the Dogs Of War.

otcmetal
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#51 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:38 pm

Avenger wrote:
Plantweed wrote:About 3/4 of the hard, fact-finding research is done: raw data, like release dates, song titles, etc. I still have several hundred zines to go through and cherry-pick for info and critical perspective. Then it’s on to confirming data with band members, and the big one: writing reviews. I’ve done a few hundred, but right now, the demo count is over 13,000, and I have access to about half of those for review. I can do a few a day. We’re hoping for another two years or so, then on to production.


Why is this being done in book format rather then a website with a searchable database?

Granted that the book will never be truly complete, it would make more sense to have it online where updates can take place as information (right, wrong or incomplete) becomes available. It would also find a larger audience with the potential for further information to be brought forward.

A book for a project this ambitious seems pointlessly outdated and would be instantly obsolete. As a graphic designer I'm sure you know a thing or two about building a modern website and backing up the data accordingly.

I’m not trying to discourage you from continuing with this project, hell, anything more broad and consistent than the metal archives would be welcome but I think the money invested in printing costs would be better spent in web hosting for various reasons.


Then why put out any new zines, or any catalog of any old releases? He's going to do it whether anyone likes it or not. That's his business. I can't understand the discouragement.

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Avenger
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#52 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:54 pm

otcmetal wrote:
Avenger wrote:
Plantweed wrote:About 3/4 of the hard, fact-finding research is done: raw data, like release dates, song titles, etc. I still have several hundred zines to go through and cherry-pick for info and critical perspective. Then it’s on to confirming data with band members, and the big one: writing reviews. I’ve done a few hundred, but right now, the demo count is over 13,000, and I have access to about half of those for review. I can do a few a day. We’re hoping for another two years or so, then on to production.


Why is this being done in book format rather then a website with a searchable database?

Granted that the book will never be truly complete, it would make more sense to have it online where updates can take place as information (right, wrong or incomplete) becomes available. It would also find a larger audience with the potential for further information to be brought forward.

A book for a project this ambitious seems pointlessly outdated and would be instantly obsolete. As a graphic designer I'm sure you know a thing or two about building a modern website and backing up the data accordingly.

I’m not trying to discourage you from continuing with this project, hell, anything more broad and consistent than the metal archives would be welcome but I think the money invested in printing costs would be better spent in web hosting for various reasons.


Then why put out any new zines, or any catalog of any old releases? He's going to do it whether anyone likes it or not. That's his business. I can't understand the discouragement.


Judging by this post, I'm assuming you only read the first sentence of my post that you quoted...

As I'm sure you know, magazines in general are a dying breed for a reason. Poor comparison.

I also find it odd that you felt the need to speak on his behalf.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"

stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."

otcmetal
Posts: 159

Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#53 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:34 pm

Avenger wrote:
otcmetal wrote:
Avenger wrote:[quoteJudging by this post, I'm assuming you only read the first sentence of my post that you quoted...

As I'm sure you know, magazines in general are a dying breed for a reason. Poor comparison.

I also find it odd that you felt the need to speak on his behalf.


No, sir, I read your whole post. The "discouragement" comment was directed at everyone apparently getting upset over the guy doing this. I mainly quoted you because of the book format/website debate. I still buy magazines, fanzines and books on Metal. And I'll continue to do so, no matter who thinks I'm partaking in a "dying breed". Btw, I'm not speaking on his behalf. Just giving my opinion, like everyone else that's made a comment on this thread. I FIND IT ODD, that you jump in and nitpick, criticize and argue over ANY little thing that doesn't fit your particular idea of what you think is right within the confines of this forum.

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Avenger
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#54 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:13 am

otcmetal wrote:No, sir, I read your whole post. The "discouragement" comment was directed at everyone apparently getting upset over the guy doing this. I mainly quoted you because of the book format/website debate. I still buy magazines, fanzines and books on Metal. And I'll continue to do so, no matter who thinks I'm partaking in a "dying breed". Btw, I'm not speaking on his behalf. Just giving my opinion, like everyone else that's made a comment on this thread. I FIND IT ODD, that you jump in and nitpick, criticize and argue over ANY little thing that doesn't fit your particular idea of what you think is right within the confines of this forum.


Buy whatever you want, I don't think anyone cares.

However, if you're going to make a point of quoting my post which wasn't directed at your personal buying habbits what so ever and you have nothing to do with this project, it would only make sense for you to have a compelling argument to justify why a printed format is a better option over an online database that can be continuously updated.

It's also no debate that printed format of anything is dying. Contact your local newspaper and ask them how many units are moved daily in comparison to 20 years ago.

Regarding the "nitpicking" that your crying about, open your eyes an realize that this is an internet forum. Discussion is what takes place here. Maybe stick to your books if you don't want to see opinion from more then one side...
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"

stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."

otcmetal
Posts: 159

Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#55 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:45 am

Avenger wrote:
otcmetal wrote:No, sir, I read your whole post. The "discouragement" comment was directed at everyone apparently getting upset over the guy doing this. I mainly quoted you because of the book format/website debate. I still buy magazines, fanzines and books on Metal. And I'll continue to do so, no matter who thinks I'm partaking in a "dying breed". Btw, I'm not speaking on his behalf. Just giving my opinion, like everyone else that's made a comment on this thread. I FIND IT ODD, that you jump in and nitpick, criticize and argue over ANY little thing that doesn't fit your particular idea of what you think is right within the confines of this forum.


Buy whatever you want, I don't think anyone cares.

However, if you're going to make a point of quoting my post which wasn't directed at your personal buying habbits what so ever and you have nothing to do with this project, it would only make sense for you to have a compelling argument to justify why a printed format is a better option over an online database that can be continuously updated.

It's also no debate that printed format of anything is dying. Contact your local newspaper and ask them how many units are moved daily in comparison to 20 years ago.

Regarding the "nitpicking" that your crying about, open your eyes an realize that this is an internet forum. Discussion is what takes place here. Maybe stick to your books if you don't want to see opinion from more then one side...


I don't care if anyone cares. I gave my opinion, just like you gave yours. Why the hell would I want to "argue" over which format is better? I'll use both, whenever I want. It's as simple as that. No negatives, from me, on either. Freedom of choice. I was referring to your seemingly "personal" debate over the two, not the world's. As far as me "crying", well, that's your easy way out isn't it? Haha...When did I say I didn't want to see an opinion? But, you ARE right. Discussion is what takes place here, and I'm discussing this topic. You are the one always lambasting someone when something comes up you don't "approve" of. The world according to Avenger.

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Ernest Thesiger
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#56 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:50 am

STOP FIGHTING.
Unfunny signature.

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Avenger
Posts: 8181

Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#57 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:50 am

otcmetal wrote:
Avenger wrote:
otcmetal wrote:No, sir, I read your whole post. The "discouragement" comment was directed at everyone apparently getting upset over the guy doing this. I mainly quoted you because of the book format/website debate. I still buy magazines, fanzines and books on Metal. And I'll continue to do so, no matter who thinks I'm partaking in a "dying breed". Btw, I'm not speaking on his behalf. Just giving my opinion, like everyone else that's made a comment on this thread. I FIND IT ODD, that you jump in and nitpick, criticize and argue over ANY little thing that doesn't fit your particular idea of what you think is right within the confines of this forum.



Buy whatever you want, I don't think anyone cares.

However, if you're going to make a point of quoting my post which wasn't directed at your personal buying habbits what so ever and you have nothing to do with this project, it would only make sense for you to have a compelling argument to justify why a printed format is a better option over an online database that can be continuously updated.

It's also no debate that printed format of anything is dying. Contact your local newspaper and ask them how many units are moved daily in comparison to 20 years ago.

Regarding the "nitpicking" that your crying about, open your eyes an realize that this is an internet forum. Discussion is what takes place here. Maybe stick to your books if you don't want to see opinion from more then one side...


I don't care if anyone cares. I gave my opinion, just like you gave yours. Why the hell would I want to "argue" over which format is better? I'll use both, whenever I want. It's as simple as that. No negatives, from me, on either. Freedom of choice. I was referring to your seemingly "personal" debate over the two, not the world's. As far as me "crying", well, that's your easy way out isn't it? Haha...When did I say I didn't want to see an opinion? But, you ARE right. Discussion is what takes place here, and I'm discussing this topic. You are the one always lambasting someone when something comes up you don't "approve" of. The world according to Avenger.


You might want to look up of the definition of "lambasting":

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/lambasting

Asking the actual guy that's involved in this project why he's chosen to go the book route while providing the benefits of the alternative has nothing to do with the term. I haven't bashed this project at all, yet you still feel the need to answer for him while going off on a tangent about your purchase habits and offering zero reason as to why it's a superior format. That's the crux of my original post so that's why if you are going to quote it with a difference of opinion it only makes sense that you would do so while providing reasons. Common sense 101...

This is essentially what you've accomplished to this point:
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"

stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."

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Avenger
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Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#58 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:03 am

Khnud wrote:Web pages come and go, and information on the internet isn't preserved eternally. Unlike if you write a book. What people might not understand is that many web pages that were alive a few years ago have closed and the information there is mostly lost, whereas we still have most of the published books intact, even back from the invention of the printing press.

Perhaps it's because I work at a legal deposit library, but there's just no arguing against that books are a much more durable medium than web pages. Until most governments mutually agree on e-deposit, which isn't happening any time soon.


Actually quite the opposite. Anything you put on the Internet, especially web pages of reasonable size are essentially archived forever. Even when the Corroseum went down a few years back, the site was still available in archived form as a reference point through a simple Google search. So unless Google, one of the biggest companies on the planet, have their servers go down, the data will always be there.

That aside, Web pages can be updated while a book is instantly out dated as soon as more information is found/brought forward or possible mistakes are corrected. I highly doubt a new version of a book is going to be printed on a regular basis. I understand books for telling a story because when it's published, it's complete but this endeavor never will be.
bigfootkit wrote:"Your Steel Is Not True"

stormspell wrote:"I hate all my releases. I only listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit, don't you know..."

otcmetal
Posts: 159

Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#59 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:11 am

]

You might want to look up of the definition of "lambasting":

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/lambasting

Asking the actual guy that's involved in this project why he's chosen to go the book route while providing the benefits of the alternative has nothing to do with the term. I haven't bashed this project at all, yet you still feel the need to answer for him while going off on a tangent about your purchase habits and offering zero reason as to why it's a superior format. That's the crux of my original post so that's why if you are going to quote it with a difference of opinion it only makes sense that you would do so while providing reasons. Common sense 101...

This is essentially what you've accomplished to this point:
[/quote]

You're trying to draw me into an imaginary argument, just to try and make yourself feel like you've made some sort of nonsensical point. And yes, the definition of "lambasting" is exactly what you try to do to certain members of this forum. I already explained everything I felt I needed to in my previous post. I won't resort to your tactics, Mr. Avenger. Btw, I DO love lamp!!!

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Priamos
Posts: 499

Re: "DemoLition" - forthcoming book on 80's demos

Post#60 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:01 pm

Ha,ha...Nothing like a good ol Corroseum controversy! :lol: :P Admit it or not, these controversies keep the forums alive! When we all agree, we hardly see one-two posts in corroseum each day! Now we have a flood of posts!! Later, we might all cry with crocodile tears: "But why can't we all be friends!!" :lol: but i guess, deep inside us we love it!
We should forgive our enemies, but not before they are hanged...

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