SIREN - No Place Like Home ..and similar bands

Helm · Post by **Helm** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:16 pm

sure. When I say 'lightweight' I don't mean in how much doublebass or BROOTAL RIFFZ are in there, I mean the emotional response I get from the material. The more distant and simple-basic the lyrics the worse, the more 'professional but not rugged' the performances, the worse. So on.

HEAVY == Emotional Resonance for me. In this sense

Fates warning - Awaken the guardian = 10
Hittman - s/t = 4
Queensryche - Operation mindcrime = 5
Mystic force - Eternal quest = 4 or so (though I have not heard this extremely close)
Titan force - s/t[/quote] = 4

Whereas Cities (the rougher version) get a higher 7, for example.

If the TF touches you very deeply, that's great, nobody can rob you of this response. It just doesn't touch me. Too 'clean', too 'distant', far away and note-perfect. A bit ivory-tower metal. A lot of proto-progressive has this effect on me. The lyrics of TF are 100% dependent on their performance on whether they'll be deeply resonant or not. Just the words are words we've heard a million times before. Be free, follow your dreams, don't give in, etc.

Keir · Post by **Keir** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:38 pm

Back on the original subject... how about Culprit?

ION BRITTON · Post by **ION BRITTON** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:19 pm

Helm wrote: HEAVY == Emotional Resonance for me. In this sense

The way you put it now, ok, it explains many things

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:37 pm

BlackStele wrote:I don't see those"hints" you're talking about...Toll Of Pain is a more melodic/atmospheric song, with Heavy riffs, and brilliant turnings, and strong bass, but yet is a "strange"song for a lot of people I know..

You don’t listen to any other genre of music other then Metal do you?…

If not you really need to broaden your horizons for the sake of not coming off as sounding ignorant.

BlackStele · Post by **BlackStele** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:38 am

Avenger wrote:
BlackStele wrote:I don't see those"hints" you're talking about...Toll Of Pain is a more melodic/atmospheric song, with Heavy riffs, and brilliant turnings, and strong bass, but yet is a "strange"song for a lot of people I know..
You don’t listen to any other genre of music other then Metal do you?…

If not you really need to broaden your horizons for the sake of not coming off as sounding ignorant.

Avenger, please, this does not make sense! We have different ways to perceive some things. I never insulted you. The reason I post hear is to speak with other people, and not quarel! I never give"advices"to people, or criticize them for their beliefs, but I try to accept them the way they are, if you don't understand what I'm trying to say, and if you can't accept the word INDIVIDUALITY, please keep your thoughts for your own..

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:46 am

BlackStele wrote:
Avenger wrote:
BlackStele wrote:I don't see those"hints" you're talking about...Toll Of Pain is a more melodic/atmospheric song, with Heavy riffs, and brilliant turnings, and strong bass, but yet is a "strange"song for a lot of people I know..
You don’t listen to any other genre of music other then Metal do you?…

If not you really need to broaden your horizons for the sake of not coming off as sounding ignorant.
Avenger, please, this does not make sense! We have different ways to perceive some things. I never insulted you. The reason I post hear is to speak with other people, and not quarel! I never give"advices"to people, or criticize them for their beliefs, but I try to accept them the way they are, if you don't understand what I'm trying to say, and if you can't accept the word INDIVIDUALITY, please keep your thoughts for your own..

Yeah, because laughing obnoxiously isn't the same thing...

I think that you have a double standard here.

Either way, that's beside the point.

What I'm saying is that if you actually ever listened to Jazz music, you would be able to hear the fusion tendencies of the guitar work in Titan Force, but since it's obvious that you don't, this is why you come off making the perceptions that you do.

I'm sorry but it's not a matter of personal "individuality" as you claim in attempt to cover up what you previously said. It's sheer ignorance.

I seriously suggest that you educate yourself before making such radical statements.

BlackStele · Post by **BlackStele** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:37 pm

Avenger wrote:
BlackStele wrote:
Avenger wrote:
You don’t listen to any other genre of music other then Metal do you?…

If not you really need to broaden your horizons for the sake of not coming off as sounding ignorant.
Avenger, please, this does not make sense! We have different ways to perceive some things. I never insulted you. The reason I post hear is to speak with other people, and not quarel! I never give"advices"to people, or criticize them for their beliefs, but I try to accept them the way they are, if you don't understand what I'm trying to say, and if you can't accept the word INDIVIDUALITY, please keep your thoughts for your own..
Yeah, because laughing obnoxiously isn't the same thing...

I think that you have a double standard here.

Either way, that's beside the point.

What I'm saying is that if you actually ever listened to Jazz music, you would be able to hear the fusion tendencies of the guitar work in Titan Force, but since it's obvious that you don't, this is why you come off making the perceptions that you do.

I'm sorry but it's not a matter of personal "individuality" as you claim in attempt to cover up what you previously said. It's sheer ignorance.

I seriously suggest that you educate yourself before making such radical statements.

you have your own pricking way of criticizing people, and THAT'S sth I loathe...my"obnoxious"laugh wasn't ironical, as your speech is most of the time here...it was natural cause I considered this statement bizarre, and has nothing to do with any user here. I never question anyone in comparison with you. You come into the ridiculous "conclusion" that I want to cover-up, or"apologize"for what I said. Well, this MY OPINION, and you have to respect it! Freedom of speech and expression is one factor that makes us distinguish from the animals, who they have other ways to communicate(scream, groan, eliminate those who are different sometimes, etc) As I said, I'm not a jazz expert, and I'll never be, and I don't listen to any other music than Metal, BUT that doesn't mean that I'm ignorant...I can have my OWN opinion, and my OWN way of perception, learn to live with that._

Nightlock · Post by **Nightlock** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:45 pm

BlackStele wrote:I don't listen to any other music than Metal, BUT that doesn't mean that I'm ignorant...I can have my OWN opinion, and my OWN way of perception, learn to live with that._

But it would make you ignorant if you claim something doesn't have jazz influences if you don't know what jazz is and sounds like doesn't it?

I'm not ganging up on you either I hope it doesn't feel that way, I just agree with Avenger.

BlackStele · Post by **BlackStele** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:58 pm

Nightlock wrote:
BlackStele wrote:I don't listen to any other music than Metal, BUT that doesn't mean that I'm ignorant...I can have my OWN opinion, and my OWN way of perception, learn to live with that._
But it would make you ignorant if you claim something doesn't have jazz influences if you don't know what jazz is and sounds like doesn't it?

I'm not ganging up on you either I hope it doesn't feel that way, I just agree with Avenger.

ok, I'm sick and tired of this...I didn't say that I'VE NEVER in my whole life listened to jazz, what you say would be valid in that case, I know how jazz sounds, and I can distinguish some things..."ignorance" is a heavy and insulting word for me..

Nightlock · Post by **Nightlock** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:06 pm

Only if you take it that way, It literally means:

"the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc."

BlackStele · Post by **BlackStele** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:10 pm

but there's no such lack here, nightlock..

ANYWAY, shall we stop here? Is it tiring for the other users who may want to return to the original subject, and talk bout Culprit??

Yes it is, I suppose...

Helm · Post by **Helm** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:56 pm

I really really don't want to fuel any fires, but I like the Corroseum very much and I think it's pretty unique that it's so civil a place, considering we're music nerds and nerds of all types on the internet love nothing better than to fight about their choice of obsession! What I'd hate to see is people grow silent resentment in here over such disagreements. So the only reason I am commenting is from a sincere hope that it might help people to get along.

BlackStele I do think you're being a bit touchy. You laughed at other people's claims in this thread and whereas I might have been a bit outrageous (with talking about the pop influence in TF

I hope I have been more clear now after ION BRITTON asked me to explain) the jazz/fusion call seems to me pretty reasonable. I am not a jazz expert either, in fact I find that sort of music usually quite boring. But it doesn't take an expert to see that there must be some Holdsworth involved in how these dudes solo. And why get upset about that? Is a jazz influence a 'strike' against TF in any way? I can see how my claim of them being lightweight might be construed as an attack, but is a fusion influence also something that sounds insulting for a band of TF's caliber?

In any case, it ain't nice to laugh at other people's opinions especially when they seem to know more about what they're talking about (jazz fusion) than you. I know we all have our own opinions and we can't all agree, but that doesn't mean any time our opinions clash the two ways it has to go down is either FIGHT or AGREE TO DISAGREE (especially if first we fight and then we agree to disagree. Everybody goes off annoyed without a winner!). There's a third road of exploring what the other guy/gal is saying and trying to understand them. I'd rather no bad blood grows out of disagreements about something so inconsequential as a fusion influence in a power metal band's guitar solos!

BlackStele · Post by **BlackStele** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:33 am

Helm, you don't seem to understand what I'm saying...I was NEVER ironical with everyone here I just said MY OPINION! If you can't understand it, then THIS is your problem and not mine. I was called"odd" and "ignorant", while I NEVER insulted anyone here! Anyway, I DON'T WANT TO GO ON FURTHER WITH THAT"CONVERSATION", ok?

Abyss · Post by **Abyss** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:24 am

Titan Force is very poppy sounding to me, there are many words people use to express this,light weight or weak can refer to having a lot of poppy sounds especially in the realm of metal,It reminds me of ample destruction with some pop sensibilities of thundersteel but fails to effect the way both of those do, I think I can hear this jazz fusion type thing more so in the bass though.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:27 am

BlackStele wrote:you have your own pricking way of criticizing people, and THAT'S sth I loathe...my"obnoxious"laugh wasn't ironical, as your speech is most of the time here...it was natural cause I considered this statement bizarre, and has nothing to do with any user here. I never question anyone in comparison with you. You come into the ridiculous "conclusion" that I want to cover-up, or"apologize"for what I said. Well, this MY OPINION, and you have to respect it! Freedom of speech and expression is one factor that makes us distinguish from the animals, who they have other ways to communicate(scream, groan, eliminate those who are different sometimes, etc) As I said, I'm not a jazz expert, and I'll never be, and I don't listen to any other music than Metal, BUT that doesn't mean that I'm ignorant...I can have my OWN opinion, and my OWN way of perception, learn to live with that._

You keep redundantly stating that your entitled to your opinion and that because it is your opinion that you should not be held accountable for what you type.

Sure, you are entitled to your opinion but did you ever stop to think that opinions could also be terribly wrong?

I guess that tomorrow my "opinion" will be that the sky is now green and no it's not because I'm colorblind...

I'm sorry but facts don't lie.

Seriously, quit beating around the bush and admit that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

BlackStele wrote:but there's no suck lack here, nightlock..

ANYWAY, shall we stop here? Is it tiring for the other users who may want to return to the original subject, and talk bout Culprit?? Yes it is, I suppose...

You're the one that went off topic to begin with by claiming that Titan Force doesn't have jazz influence.

Yes, let's please put an end to the hypocrisy, double standards, and ignorance and just go back to the original topic at hand...