what were they trying to do,if not heavy metal thenThe Erlking wrote:Well for most part they weren't even trying to be Heavy Metal in 80s so I think it's kind of unfair for them that some people want to lump the band in a category where they get judged for not being Heavy enough.MEXDefenderOfSteel wrote:(80s) Scorpions
ugh! its like soooo whatever to me,no sense of danger in that "heavy metal" at all....
Stadion Hard Rock for the most part.MEXDefenderOfSteel wrote:what were they trying to do,if not heavy metal thenThe Erlking wrote:Well for most part they weren't even trying to be Heavy Metal in 80s so I think it's kind of unfair for them that some people want to lump the band in a category where they get judged for not being Heavy enough.MEXDefenderOfSteel wrote:(80s) Scorpions
ugh! its like soooo whatever to me,no sense of danger in that "heavy metal" at all....
Here's a few from the same year that I think are Heavier.GJ wrote:Scorpions made two great, one pretty good and one awful album during the eighties - i.e. it could have been worse.
Back in 1982 there weren't many songs ever recorded that was heavier than China White.
I can see your point of view - I guess my observation was mostly based on a heaviness by terms of impact of sound along with a certain slowness (as to exclude Fast as a SharkThe Erlking wrote:Here's a few from the same year that I think are Heavier.GJ wrote:Scorpions made two great, one pretty good and one awful album during the eighties - i.e. it could have been worse.
Back in 1982 there weren't many songs ever recorded that was heavier than China White.
Accept - Fast As A Shark
Mercyful Fate - Devil Eyes
Judas Priest - Screaming For Vengeance
Iron Maiden - Hallowed Be Thy Name
Anvil - 666
Loudness - Devil Soldier
Venom - To Hell And Back
Witchfinder General - Witchfinder General
Manilla Road - Cage Of Mirrors
Manowar - Dark Avenger
Crucifixion - Take It Or Leave It
Twisted Sister - Destroyer
Chateaux - Young Blood
220 Volt - Sauron
Acid - Hell On Wheels
I like Blackout but I think that even Scorpions themselves had heavier songs before China White.
) - which may or may not be relevant in your definitions of Heavy Metal. Too me back then there wasn't much alternative genres (of which I had heard) able to compete in terms of heavyness and thus I would consider the song China White fucking heavy heavy metal - in the same way that Black Sabbath's Disturbing the Priest may have stolen the crown (back?) one year later. Well the concept of heaviness is highly subjective and there are various things that make stuff HEAVY for me. I confess I was thinking about this more like "what's more HEAVY METAL than China White" rather than "What's HEAVIER than China White" but I still think that most of the songs on my list have heavier guitar sound and style of riffing.GJ wrote:I can see your point of view - I guess my observation was mostly based on a heaviness by terms of impact of sound along with a certain slowness (as to exclude Fast as a SharkThe Erlking wrote:Here's a few from the same year that I think are Heavier.GJ wrote:Scorpions made two great, one pretty good and one awful album during the eighties - i.e. it could have been worse.
Back in 1982 there weren't many songs ever recorded that was heavier than China White.
Accept - Fast As A Shark
Mercyful Fate - Devil Eyes
Judas Priest - Screaming For Vengeance
Iron Maiden - Hallowed Be Thy Name
Anvil - 666
Loudness - Devil Soldier
Venom - To Hell And Back
Witchfinder General - Witchfinder General
Manilla Road - Cage Of Mirrors
Manowar - Dark Avenger
Crucifixion - Take It Or Leave It
Twisted Sister - Destroyer
Chateaux - Young Blood
220 Volt - Sauron
Acid - Hell On Wheels
I like Blackout but I think that even Scorpions themselves had heavier songs before China White.
I second you totally on this one. Putting this and that genre of music into this box or sub box tends to be silly and get on my nerves sometimes.GJ wrote:I don't think terms like stadium hard rock or heavy metal were very relevant/important to most musicians within the hard rock/heavy metal context around the time these albums were released (1980-82-84-88). Especially to "older" musicians like in Scorpions and also less important in the early eighties that in later in the decade. I'm sure you are aware of the different usage of the term metal during those days (and onwards). To some people Bon Jovi or Def Leppard definitely was meta,l then others would feel like being bad-mouthed if anyone would be calling their (hard rock) music that. Manowar and Judas Priest (and lots of younger bands of course) embraced the Heavy Metal-term full-on whilst Motörhead (Lemmy) thought it sounded silly. Statements that definitely has lead to what most of us here and today would consider the definite characterisation of the "genre". But at the same time I don't think bands like Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Saxon or Scorpions were very involved with keeping the borders intact. To me they seem like mere musicans with various abilities to invent, adopt or develop certain musical sounds and not bothering too much about in which drawer the results should fit...
Yes, Heavy Metal became selfconscious through the younger generation (NWoHM bands over the world). There was Heavy Metal before (Black Sabbath is the first one to do it right for me) but meaning of it was more vague and most bands didn't play consistently Heavy Metal. It was just loud music without much difference to Hard Rock. Some bands played Heavy Metal almost by accident. So in a way Heavy Metal separated from Hard Rock only in early 80s when the younger guys picked up guitars and shit and wanted to play that HEAVY METAL. For reference, check out the lyrics of Holocaust's Heavy Metal Mania. Scorpions didn't care about these things at all. They were older guys, trying to make hard rocking songs for big stages that suited better for their growing crowd. They weren't interested about the spirit and sound of this new Heavy Metal underground or the themes it touched. And it's not a bad thing necessary. It's a different thing.Nathaniel wrote:I second you totally on this one. Putting this and that genre of music into this box or sub box tends to be silly and get on my nerves sometimes.GJ wrote:I don't think terms like stadium hard rock or heavy metal were very relevant/important to most musicians within the hard rock/heavy metal context around the time these albums were released (1980-82-84-88). Especially to "older" musicians like in Scorpions and also less important in the early eighties that in later in the decade. I'm sure you are aware of the different usage of the term metal during those days (and onwards). To some people Bon Jovi or Def Leppard definitely was meta,l then others would feel like being bad-mouthed if anyone would be calling their (hard rock) music that. Manowar and Judas Priest (and lots of younger bands of course) embraced the Heavy Metal-term full-on whilst Motörhead (Lemmy) thought it sounded silly. Statements that definitely has lead to what most of us here and today would consider the definite characterisation of the "genre". But at the same time I don't think bands like Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Saxon or Scorpions were very involved with keeping the borders intact. To me they seem like mere musicans with various abilities to invent, adopt or develop certain musical sounds and not bothering too much about in which drawer the results should fit...
The most important is that one enjoys what one's listening, no matter if it is heavy metal, hard rock, rock'n'roll, or whatever.
....still they did caught up with the times, just check out their "looks" and certainly, they were not wearing the same loose 70s outfit (which in the end who cares about looks) but well,they did in that aspect...maybe to be the old "updated" guys between the fresh newcomers? same with the sound, which then again, i dont like that much....
It's a small matter and I'm sure many will disagree with my view as well.
